As the 06/07 models are getting cheaper I'm sure we will be seeing a steady increase in SAS's done to FJ's. Lately in the selling section I've seen a lot of IFS parts for sale because of SAS. I ALSO had not seen any other axle but a dana 60 or diamond housing used up front for these conversions (I'm sure some of you have seen different). Either way this guy is using a dana 44 (first I've seen/not sure if it would have been my choice but none the less not all of us have an endless bank account) up front on his FJ and I thought this video was pretty awesome of it on about the same terrain showing the ability of the SAS with only 37" tires mounted up (can't imagine what the difference in the video would have been if he went with a dana 60 up front with 40's, or something like Ben's casper TT build) compared to the IFS setup.
Although it would also be interesting to see how a front and rear LT kit while retaining the IFS (w/front and rear lockers) would do on this terrain compared to the SAS, I still thought this was a cool video comparison.
Either way I saw this guy on the forums before (RoseCityCzar - Larry). He said he's running "High pinion Dana 44 out of a 77-79 ford with chevy stuff on the ends.
37" goodyear MTR's."
Thats Rosecityczar's rig. He's a member on here and RST.
It would be better to compare that against SouthTexas Cruiser rig with LT front IFS and the 3 Link Rear rather than the 3" lIFS ift that Rosecityczar's had. Can be done for less or the same pricepoint as SAS and still retain factory electronics. Play as well on the rocks and even better in the desert. With MT in the process of running 36" tires on an IFS, I'm sure it won't be long until others are running 37" tires on 3" lifts for a direct comparison.
Definitely some nice solidaxle builds out there, but an apples to apples comparison needs to be done.
Dana 60 Is the Preferd, but tends to be the Expensive. Dana 44 is just as readly availlable in junk yards and shops, but tend to be less costly.(less demand)
Most doing the SAS, or building Rigs, Go with the 60 for its Strength. I have run 44's on a D44 with no issues, but I wasnt pounding it to death on rocks all the time mainly trails and ALot of MUD.
I am trying to FInd a set of Dana 70's For the front and rear, and run 39's or maybe even 42's when I go SAS in about 2 yrs. :cheers:
Although it would also be interesting to see how a front and rear LT kit while retaining the IFS (w/front and rear lockers) would do on this terrain compared to the SAS, I still thought this was a cool video comparison.
Either way I saw this guy on the forums before (RoseCityCzar - Larry). He said he's running "High pinion Dana 44 out of a 77-79 ford with chevy stuff on the ends.
37" goodyear MTR's."
Thats Rosecityczar's rig. He's a member on here and RST.
It would be better to compare that against SouthTexas Cruiser rig with LT front IFS and the 3 Link Rear rather than the 3" lIFS ift that Rosecityczar's had.
Exactly, the FJC is no lite weight. Once you add things like bumpers, armor,winch,recovery gear,extra fuel, water and all your personal gear it is easy to push the FJC up in the 6K range. If you are going to do all the work to put in a solid axle, pay up front and use a 60 at.
The only reason why I post this up here as well is because I have a had multiple friends dis the IFS (of course what else is new) and they all say why don't you just do an SAS FJ thats what I would do.
For one, I haven't seen one (aside from rosecitys which is relatively new) that has been under god knows how much money to build or isn't totally custom (I don't have close to those type of fabrication skills). On top of that, there AREN'T any SAS "KITS" like there are for the older Tacomas because the FJ is relatively new I'm guessing, so technically every SAS done to an FJ IS totally custom.
To top this off, if I was going to spend money to do a SAS conversion. I would want top of the line stuff like the previous builds which would in turn cost a fortune. I'll stick with LT for now.
For one, I haven't seen one (aside from rosecitys which is relatively new) that has been under god knows how much money to build or isn't totally custom (I don't have close to those type of fabrication skills). On top of that, there AREN'T any SAS "KITS" like there are for the older Tacomas because the FJ is relatively new I'm guessing, so technically every SAS done to an FJ IS totally custom.
To top this off, if I was going to spend money to do a SAS conversion. I would want top of the line stuff like the previous builds which would in turn cost a fortune. I'll stick with LT for now.
Once you are finished with the front axle you are then going to have to do something with the rear axle as well. A great many of us have taken out rear axle gears and aside from a bad batch of ring gears, most were caused by being undersized for the weight of the rig and gear.
I D60 or 70 for the rear and new suspension geometry is the only way to go and get a good mix between front and rear. By that time, asuming you have already put in a different T-case, you are well over $20K, in just drive train and shocks.
I think this is why you aree seeing a good amount of people buying FJ80s and FJ60/62s. FJ80s are pretty nimble when set up right and you can buy one and get it trail ready for under that $20K, and you still have your FJC.
I love my SAS. OVer 3500 miles, a bunch of wheeling trips, and no big issues so far. Oh, and I daily drive it over 60miles a day, of which 50 of that is freeway use sitting on 70MPH. It works. 11MPG if i keep boost down, I didnt spend more then my budget of 10K to do the Solid axle conversion. Thats everything, axles, atlas, tires. the works. Granted most of it was used stuff that i ended up rebuilding but eh, didnt break the bank, So i cant complain.
Oh yes i can. Im selling it.
Going to miss this truck
I dont miss breaking my truck everytime i took it out with my buddies. CVs, tie rod ends inner and outer, Alignments, and the biggy blowing my nitro gears and front diff up. Even the Total chaos kits have weak points. I broke MIR207s TC kit at the dinky steering extensions. That took out the CV as well. Total chaos told me never to tell anyone. Whoops.
Sure, i should have bought a JK. Oh well. I had the FJ, i did what i wanted to do.
This site hasnt always been friendly to SAS conversions, for that you want to head over to rocksolidtoys.com.
SAS will for sure always be on top for rock crawling and less breakage, but I just dont have the resources and there isnt a shop in a couple hundred miles that could do a SAS. most likely. May car is the only one of its kind in my town and others around it therefore no shops around to do that type of work
Might want to check that statement again. Look at what type of suspension won KOH this past year - IFS. An IFS can be built as robust as a SA...the IFS was that won KOH was quicker in the rocks than its SA counterparts.
For the cost of a SA front end on an FJ (that is appropriately sized for the weight) you can build a pretty beefy IFS front end thats reliabile. Not against a SA at all...in fact I looked real hard at swapping a currie rockjock on the front end, but decided to keep the IFS for now. It all depends on where you are designing your failure points in the suspension/drivetrain.
Lol. Im the oppisate, the Fj was the first IFS vehicle ive owned, after dealing with the nightmare front end that was the FJ, i'll never have another IFS truck (that i plan to wheel) again.
Anyway, im no longer an FJ owner, so my opinion doesnt count
Personally id love to see a ifs setup (under an FJ) as strong as a SAS setup (under a fj). KOH rigs arnt really comparable to an FJ no matter what some of ya'all think. Trying to keep it cost effective here. That IFS front end probably cost more then a FJ does brand new lol.
I'm not comparing the FJ to a KOH rig, nor did I infer that I was. Post I qouted/reffered too, stated that a "SA is king in the rocks & would have less breakage"...definitely more prevelant and can be more robust, but thats not always the case and nor is it ALWAYS superior, thus why I was saying his post isn't really true and pointed the KOH example.
Cost effective is pretty much out the window on a SA setup or more robust IFS upgrade unless you are doing the fab work yourself, like you did (specifically on the FJ). For the cost of a new SAC on an FJ you can build a pretty robust front end...not saying it would be superior to a SA, but you can upgrade the front dif, opens up new options for more robust CVs, can go with Camburg or TC LT kits or build your own setup (probably creeping over the cost of a SAC at that point - especially if you are paying for fab work on the front dif). Just saying there are other options out there that are "competitive" for the same price. Probably wouldn't be able to fit any larger than 37" tires on it though, but at the same time you aren't going to fit much larger than 37" tires on a SAC unless you are going to have an uber tall suspension design.
A lot of people seem to think its stupid to build a SA FJC when you look at the vehicles weight and width, i.e. not really an ideal trail rig (build something much more capable for much less cost), but to each his own. Personally I've really enjoyed most of the FJC SA builds I've seen on this and other forums, great learning opportunity and impressive to see the fab skills at work :cheers:. That being said both SA & IFS have their pluses and minuses :cheers:
it's really sad that Toyota switched to the drivers side front drive. It's makes the steering conversion that much more problematic. It would have been nice to stick with a LC front axle.
On the comparison part. I can keep up with the IFS long travel FJC at speeds. I think we both have to slow down in the whoops because we don't like bottoming out to hard. I have a huge advantage in the rocks over IFS. The beast is heavy and comfortable for those long wheeling trips. With IFS you can keep all the electronics. With the SFA swap you get to go on tougher trails longer with less driver fatigue and run bigger tires. My 2 cents.
On the comparison part. I can keep up with the IFS long travel FJC at speeds. I think we both have to slow down in the whoops because we don't like bottoming out to hard.
That surprises me. When driving at speed on rough terrain, I always feel like my front takes everything I can throw at it while the rear is all over the place. That said, I don't have coilovers on the rear solid axle like you would on most front SAs.
Found the qoute I was referencing. Hence why I said he was faster than some of his SA competitors in the rocks....
“My driveshaft vibrating at 50 and up, that’s where Scherer kept getting me, and when we’d get on the straightaways he’d eat me up,” he said. “When we were in the rough I could run it because this thing is pretty dicey through the tight stuff. So I’d make up time in the rocks
He was slow at Jackhammer. Getting hung up and stuff. Most others did better then him there. I know the guy is an animal in the desert and he told us before the race the tranny issues were solved and that he had a feeling he was going to take the race. Yes, We stayed with him at the All Pro Cabin.
Must have been a great time! The shop in town thats working on my 3link got a last second spot in KOH at the end of December last year...they pieced together the main fabricators buggy and took it out, wasn't dialed in for the race and I'm guessing it was the only rig out there not even running beadlocks...started 37 & finished 37. Not a bad showing for only a couple months to get things together and their first time out. If the event keeps going I'm hoping to make it out in a year or two to watch.
Curious to see why you wouldn't compare a SA jeep to any other SA vehicle?
Many jeep owners upgrade their axles to the exact axles that some of the SA FJC folks are running. Suspension is similar between the setups - 4 link vs. 3 link. Not like your comparing leafs to a linkage.
I knew it would not take long for the fact that an IFS rig won KOH to get into the debate between solid axles and IFS in the FJ. Apples and oranges!
The same situation is going on in the rear of the FJ. Just because it is a 4 link with panhard does not mean it handles like the 4 link in Shannon's rig either. In fact the geometry on the FJ is pathetic.
I certainly agree that the FJ will benefit from putting a solid axle in the front. My point has been and continues to be that you can not just drop in a solid axle and expect to be driving a trail slayer. The rig will need a bigger rear axle, different geometry and a transfer case swap.
It comes down to a matter of personal choice. Once all the required changes are calculated I came to the conclusion that the same money can be spent in a different direction and come out the end with a more dedicated trail rig.
I think that is the clincher for me. Once you reach a certain point in the trails you wheel, depending on that trail rig to get you home and take you to work on Monday is pushing it. We trailered the FJ to Raushe Creek last year for an event. We could have driven the FJ, 11 hours one way. We chose to trailer as “insurance”. An unplanned result was a much more relaxed time on the trail. We were not worried about being stranded by broken parts.
I knew it would not take long for the fact that an IFS rig won KOH to get into the debate between solid axles and IFS in the FJ. Apples and oranges!
The same situation is going on in the rear of the FJ. Just because it is a 4 link with panhard does not mean it handles like the 4 link in Shannon's rig either. In fact the geometry on the FJ is pathetic.
Stan - I wasn't saying that since Shanon won KOH with an IFS, that the FJ's IFS system is the best thing since sliced bread. Prior poster had noted that a SA is always superior in the rocks (not FJ specific comment by anymeans)...simply was illustrating that isn't always the case. Just like there are some pretty sweet SA Baja rigs.
Brian, I fully understood you. I was making a seperate point.
There is no right or wrong in this situation. It is all a matter of opinion, intended use of the vehicle and economics. My opinions are based heavy in the terrain on the East Cost. Most everything is tight, in the woods on the side of a mountain. Any SUV on the trails is only going to go so far before size and weight become a draw back.
Nothing that tubing the frame, removing the floor pan, ripping off the sheetmetal quarterpanels, doors, building a tube cage, and tossing on some aluminum panels can't fix.
Oh wait...you mean I just turned my $30k FJC it a buggy for an additional $40k :rofl:
Ahhh.. What a fun thread .Too many issues have come up to comment on them all.There are some great builds out there both IFSLT and SAS and I guess it really just depends on what you want to do and how much money you want to spend.SAS has worked good for me and re doing the rear geometry has helped alot as well. Tire size is probably one of the biggest factors I have seen in the rocks but rob horses in the desert.
I think the line between the IFS at speed and SAS in the rocks is getting thinner and thinner. both Jason Shere and Tony Peligrino who finished 2nd ran very fast in the desert with SAS rigs and Shannon Cruised BAck door where most SAS Rigs winched. THat being said Shannon is still faster than all in the desert. In the interview he was refering to Jason passing him on the last part of the race after he had a bent drive shaft and was unable to run all out because of the wobble.
I have run most of the trails at The Hammers and am working on being able to run faster in the woops. Last ime out was GPS at 74 MPH in big woops but the ride was a little rougher than I would like.
I have run most of the trails at The Hammers and am working on being able to run faster in the woops. Last ime out was GPS at 74 MPH in big woops but the ride was a little rougher than I would like.
I would love to run around in your beast at 75 in the bumps!!!
I did not know yours would run that fast. I remember you throwing a lowball top speed number out there at summit last year. Could have been some upgrades since then. I think I saw a thread some time ago when you were considering putting in a URD SC.
I'm curious to see the suspension designs and what type of wheel travel numbers you are hitting after the swap. I know the robustness & larger tires are a big driver, but just wanted to understand what your overall travel numbers are.
Any scores on the RTI while your at it (and what degree ramp)? I know Allpros was somewhere over 1k
frdh, have you put your LT kit on yet? This is when the mod disease kets really expensive. You keep wanting to top what you already have right after you put it on or right before. LOL
I'm no genius or expert by any means, but for me it depends on where you live and what you do. I don't have a shop within 150 miles of me that I would trust putting a solid axle in or doing any other work on my truck for that matter other than my own garage. I have the tools and skills to do it myself, but I don't have the time because of work(that thing that pays for the mods). The long travel has gotten me everywhere I wanted to go plus more up to this point and I could do the most of the work myself in a reasonable amount of time. The closest rocks or trails to me are 6 hours each way, the beach is 30 minutes, and I think that most would agree that a LT IFS is better than SAS on the beach. If i lived in a place closer to rocks or better trails I would have a solid axle up front. To build an FJ with SAS that would keep up with LT IFS on the beach would cost a fortune and the same goes for an IFS that could keep up with one of these SAS'ed rigs on the rocks. But, on another note all of these trucks ya'll are comparing already have a small fortune and alot of time(either hired or the owner's own) into them.
Hopefully I can make it to the Summit or Cruise Moab this year and run some trails with one of the SAS'ed rigs to see the pros and cons of both set ups.
As far as numbers, on a 20 degree ramp my FJ scored a 952 before the last mod. I haven't had a chance to check it since then.
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Related Threads
?
?
?
?
?
Toyota FJ Cruiser Forum
3.7M posts
122.6K members
Since 2005
A forum community dedicated to Toyota FJ owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about performance, accessories, mods, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more!