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4x4 / Off-Road Tech This section contains all discussion related to taking the FJ Cruiser in Off-Road situations, 4x4 applications and any armor modifications.


       
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Old 10-20-2006, 12:13 AM   #1 (permalink)
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When to air down?

Do you typically air down only when in deep sand? If not, how do you know when and how much to air your tires down?
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Old 10-20-2006, 01:58 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: When to air down?

thats really a good question. I air down off highway in general to about 2o lbs but have not wanted to go below this for fear of popping a bead.

Serious rock crawlers air way down to 8 psi or so. But they carry big tanks of CO2 to reset their beads or use beadlocker rims.

It reduces risk of puncture, increases the ability of the tire to smooth the ride over rough terrain, and gives the tire better "flotation" in sand.

I would like to see a reference called Tire Pressure Offroad but I did find this:

Technical Information: Tires

excerpt

Off-Road:
Just like on-road, there are several schools of thought on choosing the correct off-road tire pressure. Off-road, there are many more variables, such as the type of terrain, the tire and wheel construction which determine the type of problem you are trying to solve. The following solutions should work for 15 and 16" rims with safety beads. Note many 16.5" rims lack safety beads and running lowered pressures is risky. Rims with beadlocks are an entirely different issue.
Anyway, why do you want to lower your tire pressure off-road? Several reasons come to mind:
It softens the tire, making it more flexible to absorb bumps and less likely to get punctured due to sharp objects
It increases the contact patch with the ground, increasing traction and flotation
So, how do you go about picking a pressure to run off-road?

One rule of thumb is 1/4 of the tires maximum inflation pressure. In the above case of a 50 psi max, 12.5 should be a safe lower limit of off-road pressure.
A more sophisticated method is to measure the height of the sidewall (from ground to rim) at normal street pressure, then lower the air pressure until your sidewall height drops to 75% of the street height. I tried this with my 33x9.50 BFG M/T tires and found this occurred at 12 psi, which is very close to the 1/4 of max pressure rule.
A third method is to pick a pressure where the tires start to bulge out (assuming radial construction) and beginning to get soft. For me, this happens in the 15-18 psi range.
In any event, you want to pick a pressure that is low enough to handle the terrain, but high enough to protect the wheel and tire as well as preventing the loss of the bead.

Now for some terrain-specific observations:

On hard surfaces, lower is not always better:
I notice my BFGs begin to get slippery below about 14 psi. I think this is because the tread starts to buckle (33x9.50 mounted on 6" rims) and squirm, reducing traction. Also, below about 15 psi, if a tire is on a rock, it will deflect nearly to the rim, which can lead to sidewall punctures. If you'll be going any distance at higher speeds, then keep the pressures higher. I'll choose 18 or 20 psi if pavement driving is anticipated, otherwise 15. Also, you should correctly observe that as the pressure drops, so does your ground clearance. If clearance is more important, keep the pressure on the high side.
I notice my Swamper bias ply tires below about 8-10 psi loose their sidewall stiffness and begin to slip off of rocks when the sidewall buckles instead of grabbing on and climbing up the rock.
On soft surfaces like sand and snow, lower is better.
In fact, I follow these rules in the deep stuff:
Air down, way down, then air down some more. Then,
if your engine bogs down or overheats, air down
if your tires dig in, air down
if you get stuck, air down
After running for a while, check the air pressure
Aired-down tires tend to heat up and raise the internal pressure, if this happens, air down
If your tire looses a bead, you've aired down just a bit too much :-)
So how low is low?
I've been to 6 psi in my 33x9.50 BFGs in the snow. At 10 psi, I was digging in going downhill, at 6 psi, they just floated on top.
I've been really low in my 33x15.50 Swampers. How low? I don't know, my digital gauge reads down to 2.5 psi, then it says 0.0 (its supposed to go to 1.0, but I guess the mfg. lied). So, I estimate the tires are running 1-2 psi. They get so low that you don't hear air escaping when the valve stem is depressed. In fact, one time, I jacked a wheel up in the air, pulled the valve stem allowing all the air to escape, then I reinstalled the valve stem, lowered the jack and there was enough pressure built up due to the collapsing sidewall to support the vehicle.
Anyway, I think of tire pressure kind of like cross country ski wax. You have to know your tires and vehicle, read the terrain and then choose an air pressure to run. If you err on the high side, you can always go lower if needed. Of course if you have on-board air, its no problem either way.

More information:
Goodyear has an excellent engineering data section with lots of inflation vs. load information.
Harry Lewellyn's article on "Tire Pressures for 4-Wheeling" is an excellent primer on the subject.
Tire Pressures for 4-Wheeling
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Old 10-20-2006, 02:02 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: When to air down?

Hi.

I've often wondered why we don't share with our forum members about these little things like airing down. At least I take for granted. But which may seem like to a novice (essential or required to off road).

Airing down accomplishes two things. It allows the tire to conform to the shape of the objects that it covers, .eg bolders, rocks, uneven soil, and other odd shapes for example.
Airing down also increases the length of the traction patch the tyre or tire uses for grip and conformity.
Airing down also provides added flotation and a smoother ride. But also remember it decreases your vehicles stability and control at high speed.
Tyres or tires, should be deflated when you want to amplify or gain this extra advantage of conformity and grip when off road.
A normally inflated tire or tyre has less ability to conform and provide grip due to its higher air pressure and smaller contact patch.

A safe pressure for my 285/70 BFG AT KO while off road would be, 20-12 psi., which allows a good margine for safety at moderate speeds. Speeds (under 20 mph). I don't always air down when off road. If I crawl rock or I am knowingly going to need the extra grip, I will air down.

A good rule of thumb is to lower your speed 5 mph for every 5 psi decrease counting back from 20, twenty being the maximum air pressure and 20 mph your maximum speed. A good example would be to set the pressure at 15 psi and drive 15 mph. You can drive at higher speeds at these deflated pressures but it is not advisable. Five psi is very low and lowering the pressure further could cause the tyre or tire to break free from the wheel and deflate, which at higher speed could cause an accident.

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Old 10-20-2006, 07:41 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: When to air down?

Most everybody in our group in Moab was running 15-20 lbs. with 15-16 being the norm.

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Old 10-20-2006, 08:54 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: When to air down?

We were down to 15 psi when driving around the desert (sand and rock) and at 22 psi when I did hard packed trails in the foothills. Airing down does all those things described above. The 2 biggest things I was warned about were having to drive slower with tires aired down and looking for any kind of creasing or folding of the tire in the side walls. If the tires are creasing or folding you need to put air back in. Another thing to consider is how to re-inflate the tires. The small little air compressors that plug into the 12 volt plug on the dash probably wont be able to inflate 4 tires without burning up or it will take quite a while to do it. You can drive paved streets to a gas station as long as you drive slow and its not too far.
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Old 10-20-2006, 08:56 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: When to air down?

I go to about 17psi for whatever i run into (mud/rocks/creekbeds/etc) we dont have sand here so i dont know.
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Old 10-20-2006, 09:31 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: When to air down?

This will be popular.

Been wheelin' for 30+ years.
Have owned 40+ 4wd's.

Owned a house on the Outer Banks for 7 years (been going there for 25)
Used to rent a House 12 miles up the beach and dragged a 4x8 trailer to it most times. Even with my various Wranglers.

NEVER have EVER aired down. Not once. Times stuck: 0

Almost stuck once. Outer Banks, Sugar sand, Wrangler Sport 4.0 dragging a trailer with EVERYTHING my X-Wife and New daughter wanted to bring had stock Goodyear Wranler GSX tires.

IF I did a lot of Rock crawling (I don't) I would air down to facilitate grip.

So: My answer to the question "When does one air down" would be.

Rocks. Big (BFR's)Rocks. Not my idea of a fun afternoon.

Where do I enjoy wheeling?
EVERYPLACE I need to travel from point A to the point B of choice. I have always looked at my rig as the vehicle to get me where I want to go to have the fun I want to have.
Woods, trails, Logging Roads, Creeks, Beach, Snowy fields, not snowy fields.
None of which ever required me to go through the pain in the ass process of airing down only to have to reverse the process later.
My Command vehs in the Army for 14 years encompassed real jeeps, real humvees, and more.
Wanna Guess how many times we aired them down? and the humvee had onboard air.

Last edited by RubiconSS : 10-20-2006 at 09:49 AM.
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Old 10-20-2006, 09:45 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: When to air down?

So if I rent a house at Swan Beach next summer, and take my FJ, you don't think I will need to air down at all?
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Old 10-20-2006, 09:59 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: When to air down?

Quote:
Bones previously said: View Post
So if I rent a house at Swan Beach next summer, and take my FJ, you don't think I will need to air down at all?
I've spent most of my time on Corova and Corolla. House I owned was in Duck. Sold it because I spent all my time where I just mentioned.
I've had Jeep Wranglers, Cherokees and Grand Cherokees, Chevrolet Full size Tahoes and ALL my various Toyotas out on those Beaches.(LexusLX470, Lancruisers,4x4 PU's,4Runner)
I get a kick out of Biff and his Escalade (loafers, no socks) getting out to air down as I drive past him.

Never been stuck yet. What can I say, just because 1 or fifty people say something - doesn't make it so.
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Old 10-20-2006, 10:08 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: When to air down?

oh yea! i got my rubi fix for the morning. I can feel the congestion just melt away.
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