4x4 / Off-Road TechThis section contains all discussion related to taking the FJ Cruiser in Off-Road situations, 4x4 applications and any armor modifications.
O.K., I love my synthetic line and I know that UV degrades the stuff but I have a temprature question. The line weakens at 150 degrees. If I heat it up on a winch drum to 200, realize it is getting hot, and let it cool down to 100, will it have its original strength, or will it permanatly be degraded?
The main reason I ask is because summer is comming. I have an uncoated extension line in the back of my FJ. It could go >150 degrees day after day in the enclosed FJ this July and August. Will this weaken it? If the chemical bonds are not broken, it should be as good as new when it cools, I would think. You just don't want to stress it and tear the bonds while hot.
The line is in a bag and recieves no light. The simple thing is to take it out unless I'm wheeling BUT if I get off work early, I will frequently drive to my cabin on the spur of the moment. It is not uncommon for me to use this gear to clear trees out of the road, or explore new trails without previous planning. I keep all my gear with me all the time. Anybody have any info or advice? Thanks
I doubt its an issue. Just call the guys directly that makes the rope. Not the guys that sell it a winch line but the actual rope manufacture. One that probably provides the most line is Puget Sound Rope in Washington.
I run the Plasma on my Warn 9.5ti and have had it in 114* South Dakota heat. No idea how hot the drum got at that time during use. Stuff still does the job 3 yrs later.
Razor, your logic is solid - but some polymers reorganize at relatively low temperatures (i.e. 150 or higher). Only the Mfg will know if that is a danger to their line or not as well as how much safety factors are built into the rated temperature.
As long as there is no polymeric flow at those temperatures, the line should be fine again at normal temperature - IF NOT LOADED during thermal stressing. Remember, if the line is wound too tight on the drum, the heat may be sufficient to cause degredation even when not in use at high temperatures.
first, UV, use a winch cover, oh sorry guys, you need a open bumper like a Warn to do this as you need access to your winch.
second, how hard are you going use your winch, most pulls take a few seconds, most recoveries will not heat up the drum that much, and if it does, a new winch line is less than a back woods recovery, to get a reocery done off road is around $1500 and up, so if it does heat up the drum to a point of ruining the line, It has paid itself off. I do not use a drum line sheild on the FJC, the Wrangler is another story, that thing gets worked out so I use a heat sheild on the drum, but even then, I figure the cost of synth, over the dangers of wire, are well worth it. And oh, 2 years of abusing the synth on the wrangler and no signs of inpending failure, stuff holds up so much better than expected I am amazed, I will be working on the 3rd year on this rope and I fully expected 1 year service when I bought it.
Guys,
I have a lot of experiance with Amsteel on my sailboat and our lines are routinely stored in the cabin when in port. Temps exceede 180 in there sometimes and none of my Amsteel has EVER failed...never come close. Simply is not an issue on modern lines IMHO.
Secondly, if a line on your winch fails, a simple short term solution is to use the winch like you would on a sail boat. Take one end of the line and make multiple wraps around the drum - 6 - 8 wraps at a minimum. Take the short end and run it through your fairlead. You now have two ends running thru the fairlead - one to the anchor, and one in your hand. As you winch, pull this short end and keep tension on it by hand....the friction of the wraps against the drum will easily hold the winched load. It works so well, I have a friend who keeps his line in the trunk and only breaks it out when needed. Another advantage is you are always pulling right from the drum so you have maximum pull being applied. A disadvantage is you need help to do it or you have to fumble with the switch and line at the same time. Remember also, if you let go the load will relax and the vehicle could roll away from the load.
Rememebr also that UV degradation only effects the exterior surface of the line. It has become MUCH less of a problem in recent years with syn lines. Many sailors use single braid lines in much smaller diameters that look so ragged you would never think they would hold. You would need to abrade away a healthy amount of fiber before failure is an issue. Also, last time I looked Amsteel in 3/8" was rated at something like 12,700 pounds - if you are using a 9000 pound winch it would stall before the line breaks, or, put another way, 1/3 of the line would have to be frayed away to match the strength of the winch.
Rick
I have a call in to Masterpull, and the tech guy is out until next week. The person that I talked to, felt that it regained its original strength when cool. They will get back to me. It sounds like pretty tough stuff. It would be unusual for me to get my winch drum really hot. I did use a Masterpull extension rope yesterday and pulled hard enough to break a HiLift tree strap. Pretty amazing with something that looks like a small ski rope. (I admit it was a whimpy looking tree strap)
Thanks for the input from you guys. I'll be leaving my extension in the FJ this summer.
Guys, I mis-spoke.....Amsteel Blue, in 3/8" diameter has a tensile strength of 20,445 as tested by the manufacturer, Sampson. http://www.sailingservices.com/runni...spectron12.htm
This is more than twice the 9,000 pounds most winches we use would exert on the line. Therefore, more than half of the fibers in the line would have to be broken before you would approachg the winch's capacity.
This may be hard to get your minds around. This stuff is so amazingly strong it defies belief. I have used 1/8" line to hold main sails aloft in 25 knot winds on a 30 foot boat! You could easily pick up an FJ with 1/4" line.
Synthetic winch lines come with 10 feet of loose cover that slides along the line to provide a smooth surface for the line to run over when it is at risk of chaffing against trees, rocks, etc. BE SURE TO USE THIS. The individual fibers are fairly fragile and can break quickly with abrasion. Many times people replace line with a fair amount of 'fuzziness' when only a fraction of the line's ultimate strength is effected. Another advantage is the line is easy to splice. There are several web site that show the process and it can be done in minutes...that means a worn section can be cut away and the hook quickly spliced back in....or, a new section of line can be spliced on just as quickly. DO NOT TRY TO TIE A HOOK ON. The line does not hold knots very well, and in testing I have seen video where the knot slowly unties itself under a load. If you feel the terminal ten foot of line is getting worn looking, remove the line from the winch and reverse it! Wa-LA !, you have a new line. One last thing....these lines DO have low melting points, so under a load, you could take a peice of cotton kite line and saw right thru the Amsteel in just a few strokes - be careful of other lines intersceting with it.
Like I said, the cost of a line is sheaper than a off road recovery
I am on my 3rd year of a seriuosly used synth line, I use it for volunteer trail service. that means maintaining and clearing trails so you can use them. and have to say I will use it again this year. the stuff rocks, and the safety issues are cut so far it rocks
Rick, Highbeams, thanks for the tips. Mine gets use more for trail clearing than FJ unsticking too. I must say, I don't think I could ever go back to steel!
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