4x4 / Off-Road TechThis section contains all discussion related to taking the FJ Cruiser in Off-Road situations, 4x4 applications and any armor modifications.
Ok, I can't take it anymore. I have been slammed for this point before, but I will try one more time. I think this mod is nothing more than a case of mass hysteria.
I have read and re-read every thread I cam find on this subject and I keep coming to the same conclusion: This mod is not necessary for the vast majority of owners and it may not only NOT be "cheap insurance", but it may, very well, end up costing anyone who does it a small fortune.
Any number of you have posted that you spend a lot of time submerged, and even offer pictures of your rigs in what appears to be well over 27" of water. Not one of those guys claims to have water in their diff, and in fact, I can find absolutely NO proof whatsoever that those WITH water contamination have it as a result of a breather not functioning. While the breather is suspect, there are plenty of other places and ways for water to infiltrate, and everyone seems to be running around blaming the breather and altering the factory's respiratory system with not a shred of proof that it is at fault.
What happens if you trash your diff with water getting in there DESPITE the modifications you made? How willing will the dealer be to consider a warranty claim when you have altered an integral, and important subsystem? My guess is you have zero chance of coverage when you have altered the factory system that was expressly designed to protect the diff from water! I can almost hear the service manager saying, "Did you test your modification?, The components?, Did you vacuum test the sub assembly?, Use the correct sealants? Did you check the engineering against established engineering practices?' "I am sorry sir, but you altered a major system of this component and as a result your warranty is voided." And he'd be completely right and within the limits of the Magnuson-Moss Act in taking that position.
Most mods we deal with are convenience, appearance or performance related and we don't always alter a major system and discard the factory engineered solution. In this case, the 'cheap' and 'easy' 'solution' you all are so hot to do to your rig may rise up and bite you. As others have pointed out, if you leave your rig submerged after running it, the chance exists that the breather may suck in water. If you spend an obscene amount of time with your diff submerged, you may suck in water. Frankly, I'd rather argue with a service guy that the water in my diff is due to a failed , and warranty covered, system than try to win that point with a modified breather. I don't care how it got in there; I just care who is going to buy me a new diff
I know you all are gonna tell me I am wrong, and that this is a necessary mod. I don't buy it. If you want to do it - go ahead. Is it necessary? Not for the vast majority of us? What harm can it do? Depends on how you feel about your diff and e-locker losing their warranty coverage.
I have said my peace. I am out of here.
R
__________________
Rick Franz
"Sometimes, it is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."
Ok, I can't take it anymore. I have been slammed for this point before, but I will try one more time. I think this mod is nothing more than a case of mass hysteria.
I have read and re-read every thread I cam find on this subject and I keep coming to the same conclusion: This mod is not necessary for the vast majority of owners and it may not only NOT be "cheap insurance", but it may, very well, end up costing anyone who does it a small fortune.
Any number of you have posted that you spend a lot of time submerged, and even offer pictures of your rigs in what appears to be well over 27" of water. Not one of those guys claims to have water in their diff, and in fact, I can find absolutely NO proof whatsoever that those WITH water contamination have it as a result of a breather not functioning. While the breather is suspect, there are plenty of other places and ways for water to infiltrate, and everyone seems to be running around blaming the breather and altering the factory's respiratory system with not a shred of proof that it is at fault.
What happens if you trash your diff with water getting in there DESPITE the modifications you made? How willing will the dealer be to consider a warranty claim when you have altered an integral, and important subsystem? My guess is you have zero chance of coverage when you have altered the factory system that was expressly designed to protect the diff from water! I can almost hear the service manager saying, "Did you test your modification?, The components?, Did you vacuum test the sub assembly?, Use the correct sealants? Did you check the engineering against established engineering practices?' "I am sorry sir, but you altered a major system of this component and as a result your warranty is voided." And he'd be completely right and within the limits of the Magnuson-Moss Act in taking that position.
Most mods we deal with are convenience, appearance or performance related and we don't always alter a major system and discard the factory engineered solution. In this case, the 'cheap' and 'easy' 'solution' you all are so hot to do to your rig may rise up and bite you. As others have pointed out, if you leave your rig submerged after running it, the chance exists that the breather may suck in water. If you spend an obscene amount of time with your diff submerged, you may suck in water. Frankly, I'd rather argue with a service guy that the water in my diff is due to a failed , and warranty covered, system than try to win that point with a modified breather. I don't care how it got in there; I just care who is going to buy me a new diff
I know you all are gonna tell me I am wrong, and that this is a necessary mod. I don't buy it. If you want to do it - go ahead. Is it necessary? Not for the vast majority of us? What harm can it do? Depends on how you feel about your diff and e-locker losing their warranty coverage.
I have said my peace. I am out of here.
R
This is a pretty common mod for any make of 4x4 that gets heavy use and did not come equiped as such from the factory. During the spring here in UT water crossings are numerous and deep on many mountain trails. You might not have read about folks having issues because the vehicles have only been out a year and not many have had a need to check yet. Given the numbers of submarine FJ vids I've seen I'd say this mod is a good bet.
Ok, I can't take it anymore. I have been slammed for this point before, but I will try one more time. I think this mod is nothing more than a case of mass hysteria.
I have read and re-read every thread I cam find on this subject and I keep coming to the same conclusion: This mod is not necessary for the vast majority of owners and it may not only NOT be "cheap insurance", but it may, very well, end up costing anyone who does it a small fortune.
Any number of you have posted that you spend a lot of time submerged, and even offer pictures of your rigs in what appears to be well over 27" of water. Not one of those guys claims to have water in their diff, and in fact, I can find absolutely NO proof whatsoever that those WITH water contamination have it as a result of a breather not functioning. While the breather is suspect, there are plenty of other places and ways for water to infiltrate, and everyone seems to be running around blaming the breather and altering the factory's respiratory system with not a shred of proof that it is at fault.
What happens if you trash your diff with water getting in there DESPITE the modifications you made? How willing will the dealer be to consider a warranty claim when you have altered an integral, and important subsystem? My guess is you have zero chance of coverage when you have altered the factory system that was expressly designed to protect the diff from water! I can almost hear the service manager saying, "Did you test your modification?, The components?, Did you vacuum test the sub assembly?, Use the correct sealants? Did you check the engineering against established engineering practices?' "I am sorry sir, but you altered a major system of this component and as a result your warranty is voided." And he'd be completely right and within the limits of the Magnuson-Moss Act in taking that position.
Most mods we deal with are convenience, appearance or performance related and we don't always alter a major system and discard the factory engineered solution. In this case, the 'cheap' and 'easy' 'solution' you all are so hot to do to your rig may rise up and bite you. As others have pointed out, if you leave your rig submerged after running it, the chance exists that the breather may suck in water. If you spend an obscene amount of time with your diff submerged, you may suck in water. Frankly, I'd rather argue with a service guy that the water in my diff is due to a failed , and warranty covered, system than try to win that point with a modified breather. I don't care how it got in there; I just care who is going to buy me a new diff
I know you all are gonna tell me I am wrong, and that this is a necessary mod. I don't buy it. If you want to do it - go ahead. Is it necessary? Not for the vast majority of us? What harm can it do? Depends on how you feel about your diff and e-locker losing their warranty coverage.
I have said my peace. I am out of here.
R
If you will notice at the top of the thread it says in BOLD letters "IF YOU DON'T TRAVEL IN HIGH WATER, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DO THIS MOD"
Now, with that being said, let’s get to your argument. I can see from your writing that you are “NEW” to the Off-Road community. That’s ok, this is what this forum is all about is to learn. But before you go bad mouth a vehicle modification, may I suggest that you do a little research on the subject. And I don’t mean just on this forum. Anyone in the Off-road community knows about differential breather re-locations, this is a given. There are professional companies that “MAKE” these devices for this purpose! I only stepped up to the plate for the guys and gal’s out there that want to save a few dollars and protect there drive train system and to help educate people like yourself that are new to the off-road world of these things. This is “NOT” mass hysteria, this is a very normal practice in the off-road community. I know sometimes it may seam like that around here on the board. People get "Excited" about certain topics, they can grow very quickly. As far as Toyota is concerned, when I mentioned to my Toyota service department about them not relocating the rear diff breather, they said you are aren’t you. Most of the mechanics where I live “Play off road, and understand the meaning of this relocation procedure. There are a lot of people that have never owned a 4x4 before, this may have been there very first purchase. This forum is here to help members and educate everyone on different aspects of the off-road world, this just happens to be one them. If you have a lot of water and plan on playing in it, you DO need to do this. I suggest to do some research out there on the net, go to some of the 4x4 web sites, go to landrovers web site and they will sell you the “KIT” to relocate the breathers on their own vehicles! Well, I have said enough. Do some research before posting next time.
Quote:
MoabRat previously said:
This is a pretty common mod for any make of 4x4 that gets heavy use and did not come equiped as such from the factory. During the spring here in UT water crossings are numerous and deep on many mountain trails. You might not have read about folks having issues because the vehicles have only been out a year and not many have had a need to check yet. Given the numbers of submarine FJ vids I've seen I'd say this mod is a good bet.
Yep, It’s plain to see he’s new to the off-road community and he’s a little un-nerved. Like I stated above, he needs to do some Internet research on differential breathers before he makes accusations about something that he no full understanding about. Some people are quick to warn with out taking sometime to gain an understanding about a whole new area that they have not experienced before. Most of the public considers driving down a dirt or gravel road as Off-road. This is why we have a great area like this on this forum to openly discuses things that most have never heard of. We speak of strange vehicle parts, suspension systems, lifts kits, spacers, backspacing, offset, we speak a language that is totally new to most people out there that have no clue to what it take to be able accomplish certain tasks off road. Hell, I’ve been around the off-road world all my life, but still find it hard to wade through the different products out there, because technology is changing all the time. Now with that being said, think about someone that is not used to this world, and hearing of people altering devices on their vehicles. Yeh, That would make me uneasy too. But, I would definitely do some searching on the net, before posting and making accusations with no substance. This only confuses the main issue. Thanks
__________________
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"Good people sleep peacefully at night safe in the knowledge that rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf" (George Orwell)
Ok, I can't take it anymore. I have been slammed for this point before, but I will try one more time. I think this mod is nothing more than a case of mass hysteria.
(1) Shadow Warrior knows his stuff and he's right.
(2) I'm waiting for a snorkel mod that I like to come out before I take his (sound) advice because I want to incorportate Mike's (Shadow Warrior's) LOW COST solution into the snorkel/cold air intake.
(3) I'm never hysterical but there are prudent things to do to protect the rig. This is one of them. But I'm not rushing out to do it because I spend most of my off road time in the desert and rarely ford anything deeper then sprinkler run-off from the neighbor's grass on my way to the market.
(4) There may come a time when I will need it and it is better to have and not need than need and not have.
(5) I'm not flaming you at all. Not in the SLIGHTEST. The question to me is whether or not it's prudent, and I leave that decision to you.
__________________
There is nothing like returning to a place that remains unaltered, to find the ways that you have changed.
(1) Shadow Warrior knows his stuff and he's right.
(2) I'm waiting for a snorkel mod that I like to come out before I take his (sound) advice because I want to incorportate Mike's (Shadow Warrior's) LOW COST solution into the snorkel/cold air intake.
(3) I'm never hysterical but there are prudent things to do to protect the rig. This is one of them. But I'm not rushing out to do it because I spend most of my off road time in the desert and rarely ford anything deeper then sprinkler run-off from the neighbor's grass on my way to the market.
(4) There may come a time when I will need it and it is better to have and not need than need and not have.
(5) I'm not flaming you at all. Not in the SLIGHTEST. The question to me is whether or not it's prudent, and I leave that decision to you.
Thanks Larry
I believe "Knowledge" is the keys to life
__________________
.
"Good people sleep peacefully at night safe in the knowledge that rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf" (George Orwell)
Suggesting I simply do not understand about offroading is exactly what I expected when you cannot find any thing wrong with my argument. It is an age old tactic to attack a person you do not know at all as being unknowledgeable when you don't agree with their position. If you had done YOUR research, you would understand how ludicrous that is.
Because others have relocated breathers on other vehicles DOES NOT mean we should, or need to!
None of you have yet offered any evidence whatsoever that the breather is at fault.
Nor have any of you suggested that giving up the warranty coverage is reasonable price to pay for this 'cheap insurance'.
Sorry guys, you all drank the Kool-Aid......from where I stand, its funny....
pathetic really, but funny too.
Last post on the subject.
R
__________________
Rick Franz
"Sometimes, it is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."
I'm still going to do it, and you are still free not to. For me it is added insurance that will potentially PREVENT me from having to take it in for diff problems. It's not rocket science; it's a tube.
I'm impressed that the stock breather kept water out, but this can only ADD to the capabilities to keep water out and in no way adds to the potential to let water in. Why not do it?
20% of the things I do in my truck might void the warranty anyway. It is kind of a given when you wheel that there may be instances when you are stepping over the lines, but I never colored inside the lines anyway
Thanks for another viewpoint on the topic, though.
Rick's comments overshadowed my question, so I'll ask it again. If the front diff valves are one way, don't they stand the chance of sucking water by the seals?
__________________
We're now a two FJ family
Black Diamond and Black Cherry
Suggesting I simply do not understand about offroading is exactly what I expected when you cannot find any thing wrong with my argument. It is an age old tactic to attack a person you do not know at all as being unknowledgeable when you don't agree with their position. If you had done YOUR research, you would understand how ludicrous that is.
Because others have relocated breathers on other vehicles DOES NOT mean we should, or need to!
None of you have yet offered any evidence whatsoever that the breather is at fault.
Nor have any of you suggested that giving up the warranty coverage is reasonable price to pay for this 'cheap insurance'.
Sorry guys, you all drank the Kool-Aid......from where I stand, its funny....
pathetic really, but funny too.
Wading Kits
For wading, we recommend the fitting of a Mantec Wading Kit; the breathers on your vehicle are all vulnerable when deep wading and hot axles may 'breathe in' water. Regular maintenance is advised.
WADING KITS FOR DEFENDER, DISCOVERY AND RANGE ROVER CLASSIC (10-WK)
Mantec Wading Kit available for various engines for Defender, Discovery and Range Rover Classic. Turbo/non Turbo Diesel, tdi and V8 Petrol kits
Product Code: 10-WK
Wading Kits for Defender, Discovery and Range Rover Classic
Mantec Wading Kit for Defender, Discovery and Range Rover Classic. Turbo/non Turbo Diesel, tdi and V8 Petrol kits consist of breather extensions and connectors for front & rear axles, gear box & transfer box up to the height of a Raised Air Intake. Available for 200tdi, 300tdi, NA, TD, V8, Series I, II, III and TD5.Please specify engine when ordering.
Rick's comments overshadowed my question, so I'll ask it again. If the front diff valves are one way, don't they stand the chance of sucking water by the seals?
They have been extended already and are less dangerous. Change the valves at the end at your pleasure.
Rick: Toyota's rear diff is the same design as every other rear diff on the market. They don't have a "magic" valve that is better than others. No-One is attacking you my friend. Just don't do it. If you spend years and years in the future enjoying the recreation of off roading, you will see that. Toyota has not done any special or new technology here. It is the same as all their other trucks and the same as jeep, land rover, Chevy, ford et. all. Time has proved that this mod saves off-roaders who get in deep water a lot of money in damages. The easiest way to learn a lesson is to just not do it. You might or might not ever have a problem. Why are you tilting windmills here? I've been doing this quite a while and I guarantee folks are just trying to be helpful.
"Sometimes, it is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."
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