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Armor Frustrations

8K views 32 replies 13 participants last post by  MIDSTATESOFFROAD 
#1 · (Edited)
OK, here it is. I'm trying to remove all my skids so I can swap all the gear oils for her 100k birthday. Problem is, I've only gotten about half of the bolts out clean. Either the bolts are snapping off or the captive nuts are spinning inside the frame. The skids have only been installed for a year-ish.

I can drill out the bolts that are spinning, but what do I do after to reinstall the plates? I've had to sacrifice 4 mount points so far. 2 on the belly skid between the tires, and the 2 that go through the trans cross member.

So, does anyone have any bright ideas how to get these things put back on?
 
#2 ·
weldnuts or rivnuts, or maybe drill and do a nut on top? Helicoils?

I'm in the same boat as I've stripped out a few holes on mine due to taking my skids off several times. For the fronts, I just drilled them completely out and put a nut on top of a longer bolt. Its easy to get to those from the back side.

For the others, I think I'm going to go with a simple rivnut. I'd like to do weldnuts, but I'd have to pay to have someone do those and if I'm going down that road I'm upgrading all the mounting points to something bigger/beefier and probably SAE so I can get cheaper/stronger grade 8 hardware.
 
#5 ·
That was about my only plan, was to weld on a nut/washer to the outside of the mount location, but that will lower the skids a bit. Not much, I guess, but still ground clearance is everything.




X2 on the rivnuts.... Then of course liberal antisieze for reinstall....
X3. Antisieze has become my new best friend, lately.




I would recommend as others have by using rivnuts with the following tool vs making a home-made one: Amazon.com: Astro Pneumatic Tool 1427 Hand Rivet Nut Kit: Automotive
Thanks for the link.

I've thought about the rivnuts before, but are they strong enough for skid mounts?



thanks for the ideas.
 
#4 ·
#7 ·
G'day Zack,

Rivnuts won't work, long term, in my experience .... they will pull out ... happened to me.
I ended up using M8 weld nuts.
Even then the first time, they rusted under the weldnut and popped off, second time it is welded much better and stronger ... and holding for the last 12 months. I pull my skids regularly for maintenance and service. I do not let any one else touch em. Thats how it popped in the first place by the tech cross threading one bolt then trying to fix/hide it ...

Cheers
Baz
:blueblob:
 
#8 ·
We've had this happen with our skids. Even the grade 10.9 M8's we provide will twist right off when they get seized in the frame. In that case I have drilled out the M8 threads and used our "stick nuts" to fish a 3/8" nut inside the frame or cross-member.

Preventive measures, use anti seize on all of the bolts during installation!!!
 
#14 ·
Like others have stated, RivNuts will not last, they will loosen from the flexing of the frame. RivNuts are relatively soft. Weld nuts are the key. Run a tap though each one before installing the skids. Do not forget the liberal use of anti-seize
 
#20 ·
I've wheeled with jeepconvert a few times so I think I can provide a little insight. Just about all his offroading takes place in a 1000 acre park (Badlands, IN), which means repeating the same obstacles and trails a few times each trip. In the last year I would guess he and two others (fjen and indybc) have been there together around 20-30 times. They're all offroad package, running ~2-3" lifts and 33" tires as far as I know. When I run with them, the rockier parts get spotted and run on basically identical lines, and with that much repetition I think it's fair to say they are hitting the mostly the same stuff. The crawling is pretty slow, too. Here's an example:

I just put Ricochets on in January and I've made 5 or 6 trips this year to the Badlands. Something I noticed that may or may not be relevant is how the rocks made several deep grooves, and if I had steel armor, I wonder if the harder metal would have bent instead of being scraped away. I've got quite a few chunks missing on the leading edge, too, but no bends I can see, and I dropped the engine skid for an oil change after my last trip.
 
#22 · (Edited)
I've wheeled with jeepconvert a few times so I think I can provide a little insight. Just about all his offroading takes place in a 1000 acre park (Badlands, IN), which means repeating the same obstacles and trails a few times each trip. In the last year I would guess he and two others (fjen and indybc) have been there together around 20-30 times. They're all offroad package, running ~2-3" lifts and 33" tires as far as I know. When I run with them, the rockier parts get spotted and run on basically identical lines, and with that much repetition I think it's fair to say they are hitting the mostly the same stuff. The crawling is pretty slow, too. Here's an example: Voodoo Blue FJ - Rock Garden Trail - Badlands 6/8/14 - YouTube

I just put Ricochets on in January and I've made 5 or 6 trips this year to the Badlands. Something I noticed that may or may not be relevant is how the rocks made several deep grooves, and if I had steel armor, I wonder if the harder metal would have bent instead of being scraped away. I've got quite a few chunks missing on the leading edge, too, but no bends I can see, and I dropped the engine skid for an oil change after my last trip.
Thanks for posting that. I forgot about that little stretch of trail. Also, thanks for clarifying our trail style. You said it way better than I did. Your last paragraph regarding bends vs scrapes is exactly why I went with steel over aluminum. I figured the steel would resist the bends better than aluminum. I knew I would scrape the crap out of the surface but I thought the steel would hold its shape better than the aluminum.

I wish you guys could see these skids. I've tried to take pics to post, but I can't get it to show up in the pics. And to be clear, I'm not naming the brand because I don't blame the manufacturer. I just really though that with their reputation and cost they would have held up better. I've been under fjen's truck and her older aluminum skids look way better than my newer steels. Even the local folks who have been able to look at them on the floor have even exclaimed that they looked like they'd been through extreme terrain on an extreme truck and anyone who has wheeled with me knows I don't beat on my rig. I will wheel it, but I don't beat on it.

I've had several people suggest I take it up with the fab shop I got the skids from. And honestly, I've thought about it. However, I do understand they are a product that is meant to be used and absorb damage and I imagine the shop is gonna tell me the same thing.

Again, my main concern is how to get them back on the truck after drilling off/out four of the mount locations. I'm just disappointed they haven't held up very well to the job they are meant to do.
 
#24 ·
Ok guys and gals, here is an update with the skids.

I have been emailing back and forth with both Shannon and Bud at Budbuilt regarding this situation and they both have been nothing but helpful. I bought their skids because of looks, protection, and reputation and they are standing behind their product. The Budbuilt name gets a lot of respect among FJ'ers and this is why.

Bud agreed the tcase skid has failed and they are replacing it. Wow! That is way more than I expected. They are also sending me some weld nuts to replace/repair the mount points that have snapped off. They also said the front plate is a common bend area and they see that a lot, but they still offered to straighten it out for me.

When I first spoke with Shannon on the phone she had no hesitation about what to do. "Send me some pics and descriptions so we can see what needs replaced." They could have just as easily said "they are belly skids, what do you expect".

Thanks again Shannon and Bud for your help. You have exceeded my expectations.

:rocker::clap:
 
#25 ·
OK, so BudBuilt is replacing your transfer case skid because it was beaten to destruction. Unless Bud has significantly changed the design or materials of the skid, your replacement skid is likely the same as your first skid.

Will you be expecting Bud to replace your transfer case skid again next year, or will you be making some changes to your off-road driving style to minimize high-energy impact of skid-against-rock?
 
#28 ·
^^^ Many fine points in that post.

My take on this is simple. A bashed skid plate tells me that it did it's job, it saved the part it was intended to protect. It also tells me that the driver took a line to attempted to clear an obstacle improperly or one that the vehicle was incapable of traversing.

Common sense needs to be applied here folks. If a guy is bashing the heJJ out of steel skid plates, he is doing something wrong!
 
#29 · (Edited)
I think you are NOT READING ....

he called them asking for advice/information based on suggestions of other members here:

"I've had several people suggest I take it up with the fab shop I got the skids from. And honestly, I've thought about it. However, I do understand they are a product that is meant to be used and absorb damage and I imagine the shop is gonna tell me the same thing.

Again, my main concern is how to get them back on the truck after drilling off/out four of the mount locations.

And to be clear, I'm not naming the brand because I don't blame the manufacturer. "

So, unless you have something constructive to say, stop trolling.
 
#31 ·
fjen -

Maybe just a fundamental difference in off-road driving philosophy...

If I make hard contact between any portion of my vehicle's undercarriage and a rock, for me it's an "aw sh*t" moment, and I feel that I failed in selecting the correct line through the terrain. For me, the skid plates are backup safety devices to help protect against driver error.

I can see an alternate philosophy that believes constant contact between skid plates and rocks is normal and inevitable, and that skid plates are expendable components just like tires and brake pads.

The vid clip provided by the OP showing where he wheels seemed pretty mild as far as areas that could be expected to cause severe skid plate damage; maybe it didn't show the worst rock sections.
 
#32 ·
I don't want to turn his thread into a debate when he's simply looking for some advice, so this will be that last I say on the subject. We are a group that wheel together all the time, we all do the same stuff. There are times when others join us too, some not as regularly. We follow one another and spot each other over the same terrain. The tears in the welds and bends are very unusual compared to the skid plates of the other FJ's involved. When he did call the company explaining the situation to them their response was those things should not have happened. I think it's great they are working with him. It doesn't mean he is using and abusing them past what they were designed to to.
 
#33 ·
Everyone... :simmadown::simmadown::simmadown:..please.

I would like to have any readers to this thread understand that I want to express how positive my experience with Budbuilt has been.

When I contacted them to explain my situation and ask their advise, they were eager to help. They never accused me of abusing the skids or asking too much of them. They pointed out the damage that is normal and to be expected, but they also saw damage that they were surprised by. They also offered up a solution for getting them mounted back up.

They immediately offered to send a new panel. I didn't ask or pressure them to do so. They also offered to fix panels with "normal" damage for free. I feel this is way beyond any response that I could have expected and am grateful for their help.

Again, I just want to thank Bud and Shannon at Budbuilt for their tremendous response. Budbuilt has a well deserved reputation of providing great service and products and, I will recommend their products whenever I can.
 
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