Thanks for the advice... I'm checking into the credit union option as well.
I did go and drive a TT SE last night. I got the dealer down to 30,000 even on the vehicle... but they were really trying to bend me over on my trade in and APR.
They started at 5,000 for my '02 Tacoma and 18% financing !!!!!!
I laughed.
He gave me every line in the book about why that's all he could do and that if I got a better deal from another dealer they would probably call me back in for a 'resign' ... I've never heard of this... anyone?
anyway -
I walked out. they still had my key's (of course

)
he came back with the keys and a paper in his hand saying.... "I don't know how he did this, but..." I laughed.
final offer was 7500 for my tacoma and 13.9% financing.
Understanding that this wasn't too bad of a deal with my credit, a short window of opportunity on the SE TT, and a LITTLE better on the trade in he was all ready for me to go. I walked out.
This was where the conversation should have started, but he wasted my time and patience after assuring me that they don't play games at "Nor Cal's largest Toyota dealer".... I shook his hand and thanked him for his time, but said I would rather not purchase the vehicle from him.
I couldn't bring myself to do business with him after all the sliminess. I can afford the payments, credit problems are in the past and in CA there's no penalty for paying off early, so I can refinance in a year or two when my credit is back up, and I'm ready to do
It used to be that the Internet sales department was straight forward, but alas... the search goes on.