Powertank fill ups?

[k44]

What is this powertank you speak of?

POWERTANK - CO2 Air Systems

[Gone2Baja]

I filled a 15lb tank at a welding shop for $21.00 out the door. It's on the north side of baseline east of country club.


-Mark

[Katfish]

Gone2Baja previously said:

I filled a 15lb tank at a welding shop for $21.00 out the door. It's on the north side of baseline east of country club.

P.S. I down sized to a 10lb tank so if anybody needs a full tank I'd sell it cheap, it's just taking up room in my garage. It comes with everything.

-Mark

How much?

[BellyDoc]

1leglance previously said:

I agree that Thunderbird is the place to go as they will be who you go see in 5 yrs to have your tank re-cert'd.
Anthony is super nice and he says he can put together a CO2 setup for 4x4 folks for a great price, he is an offroader also.

I strongly recommend not buying any non-"powertank" based regulator unless you SEE it fill 4 offroad tires without freezing open or shut. Welding regulators will typically not handle the flow rates and flow times of tire filling without malfunctioning.

My recommendation is to BUY the powertank regulator kit and then use it on interchangeable CO2 bottles. The powertank regulator is fundamentally different than welding regulators.

[5280FJ]

BellyDoc previously said:

I strongly recommend not buying any non-"powertank" based regulator unless you SEE it fill 4 offroad tires without freezing open or shut. Welding regulators will typically not handle the flow rates and flow times of tire filling without malfunctioning.

My recommendation is to BUY the powertank regulator kit and then use it on interchangeable CO2 bottles. The powertank regulator is fundamentally different than welding regulators.

Can you explain this fundamental difference? For safety reasons I'd like to know. I use a draft system regulator and have had no problem filling my tires as well as one or two other vehicles at the same time. The first few inches of hose and the disconnect "ice up" on the exterior. I purchased it at the recommendation of a friend who, along with many of his friends have been running this for several years.

[Mr R2FJ]

Here's another question. Is a regulator absolutely necessary? I can fully understand using it for power tools or what not, but if all you want it for is tires is the extra expense even worth it?

[5280FJ]

Mr R2FJ previously said:

Here's another question. Is a regulator absolutely necessary? I can fully understand using it for power tools or what not, but if all you want it for is tires is the extra expense even worth it?

YES, the regulator decides what pressure your hose (therefore your tires) are going to see.

Without it, it's kinda like throwing your camp stove away, and just putting gas in an open coffee can...

[BellyDoc]

5280FJ previously said:

Can you explain this fundamental difference? For safety reasons I'd like to know. I use a draft system regulator and have had no problem filling my tires as well as one or two other vehicles at the same time. The first few inches of hose and the disconnect "ice up" on the exterior. I purchased it at the recommendation of a friend who, along with many of his friends have been running this for several years.

Welding regulators work very similar to the "second stage" of a scuba regulator. The high pressure gas comes in on one side, and meets up against a valve which is held closed by a spring. This spring can be adjusted in tightness by a screw that sits behind it and attaches to a T-handled control that you see on the front of the regulator body. Also holding pressure on this spring is a big flat rubber diaphragm with atmospheric pressure on one side and CO2 space on the other. The valve stays open and lets the CO2 flow out until the pressure inside the chamber is equal to the pressure of the diaphragm plus the pressure of the spring, then it stops. This mechanism lets you set a pressure that is always "relative" to atmospheric pressure, so the flow behavior of the regulator doesn't change with the weather or with altitude. The diaphragm, however, stops being flexible when it freezes solid!

There are two pressure guages on most regulators. One is the high pressure guage which tells the pressure between the tank and the regulator. The other is the low pressure guage which tells the pressure downstream of the regulator and in the hose. When the diaphragm freezes solid, the valve inside can't close. What you'll see is that the pressure in the "low pressure" guage climbs rapidly as soon as you STOP filling a tire, and then the pop-off valve on the back of the regulator will start to hiss. Additionally, there is a lot of water vapor mixed into CO2, and it will freeze INSIDE the regulator when flow is allowed to continue for an extended period of time for high flow rates. This will "freeze clog" the regulator. The same regulator may have BOTH problems... first the fill rate of the tires gets slower and slower (freeze clogging) and THEN when you stop filling, the thing is frozen open and it blows out the pop-off valve!

I tried both welding regulators and soda fountain regulators before I gave up and bought a powertank regulator. For the size of my tires and the flows it is easily capable of, I think I should have just forked out for the nice one up front!

I haven't disassembled my powertank regulator and I'm not going to. It works that well. I don't think it's a diaphragm design, but I don't know what design it actually uses. It's fundamentally different.

Mr R2FJ previously said:

Here's another question. Is a regulator absolutely necessary? I can fully understand using it for power tools or what not, but if all you want it for is tires is the extra expense even worth it?

The high pressure side of the regulator system sees about 1000 PSI. Most hoses are not rated for this kind of pressure. If you hooked up a series of fittings so that a hose could screw directly into the tank valve and the other end had a schrader valve fitting (for filling tires) and the hose was of sufficient strength to take 1000+ PSI, then you could probably fill tires without a regulator. Good luck actually holding the thing on the tire with your fingers... you better have a screw-on fitting.

The CO2 inside the tank is actually in liquid form. It's a superheated liquid that at ambient pressure would explosively turn into gas.

This means if liquid gets into the hose... you better be somewhere else.

[5280FJ]

BellyDoc previously said:

The diaphragm, however, stops being flexible when it freezes solid!
[B]Good thing to know! Thanks.[/b]




I tried both welding regulators and soda fountain regulators before I gave up and bought a powertank regulator. For the size of my tires and the flows it is easily capable of, I think I should have just forked out for the nice one up front!

I haven't disassembled my powertank regulator and I'm not going to. It works that well. I don't think it's a diaphragm design, but I don't know what design it actually uses. It's fundamentally different.

Um, that doesn't explain anything to me... it's fundamentally different HOW?

I really don't want to get into stuff with you again, but I appreciate ACCURATE info. How is it different? Remember... Less is More.

[san antonio fj]

for my kegerator I get a 10# and 2.5# tanks filled at the local fire extinguisher recharging/hydro testing place. I paid $10.50 for the 10# and like 3$ for the 2.5#