The Game Begins!!!

[EschObfus]

BigPoppa'sFJ previously said:

Keep in mind that Toyota already deemed the FJ a "limited production vehicle" so that there are no rebates or discounts. I'd say get it as close to invoice as possible and then sign!

I'm pretty sure there are rebates. Right now in my region there is $500 customer cash on the 2008 and $1000 on the 2007.

[BamBam]

That's interesting. The dealer who refused to quote me a price unless I came and test drove a vehicle also told me that there are no rebates on 2007's and they cost "way more" than 2008's. Why are Toyota dealers so screwy? It's almost funny.

I guess that's the problem with building a good vehicle. You go into a Dodge dealership and they'd do backflips in order to get you to buy a car.

[007FJ]

BigPoppa'sFJ previously said:

You got to get the Invoice before signing the deal, the dealers I messed with mark the FJ up at least $3k over invoice.

Ok Guys, Dealers don't mark it up.. The pricing comes from Toyota, The MSRP is a document which is supplied to the dealer and the dealer has no choice of what that it.. It is soley from Toyota.

Now they can mark it up over MSRP but that is a seperate sticker..

And yes there is about 3 to 3500 in profit from invoice and MSRP, what is wrong with that. Isn't it fair for a company to make money and the sales person to make a living, just like you do in your job and so you can afford the FJ you are driving?

[BamBam]

I don't have a problem with people making money. I have a problem with soulless liars attempting to "get over on me" and get off on it. Be straight up with me and everybody will be happy. They make it a competition and I go right back at them. They make the rules.... we just play by them.

Their goal is to make as much profit as humanly possible. Do you walk into Wal-mart and go "Hey, how much is a Playstation 3" and the guy goes, "Let me go get my manager.... and I'll need your phone number and ss# to give you that info." It's all just stupid. Set a price at the factory that makes sense and go with it. The whole negotiate off of sticker thing and have different prices for ladies and guys and all of that garbage is a broken stupid outmoded system that NEEDS to go away. The big auto companies are still messing around with a 1930's style business model and it is why people like me try to stick it to them, because if I don't then they will stick it to me and lots of others.

It's too bad it has to be that way, but in my profession we get a set amount for doing our job. I don't charge different people different amounts when they walk in the door and assume I can get over on somebody because of their gender, race, or the way they dress. It is what it is. I can take pride in the fact that I work that way.

[007FJ]

BamBam previously said:

I don't have a problem with people making money. I have a problem with soulless liars attempting to "get over on me" and get off on it. Be straight up with me and everybody will be happy. They make it a competition and I go right back at them. They make the rules.... we just play by them.

Their goal is to make as much profit as humanly possible. Do you walk into Wal-mart and go "Hey, how much is a Playstation 3" and the guy goes, "Let me go get my manager.... and I'll need your phone number and ss# to give you that info." It's all just stupid. Set a price at the factory that makes sense and go with it. The whole negotiate off of sticker thing and have different prices for ladies and guys and all of that garbage is a broken stupid outmoded system that NEEDS to go away. The big auto companies are still messing around with a 1930's style business model and it is why people like me try to stick it to them, because if I don't then they will stick it to me and lots of others.

It's too bad it has to be that way, but in my profession we get a set amount for doing our job. I don't charge different people different amounts when they walk in the door and assume I can get over on somebody because of their gender, race, or the way they dress. It is what it is. I can take pride in the fact that I work that way.

Bam Bam:
You are right, We even think it is a broken system and it needs change..
The fact is that Toyota is doing a test market in Canada right now and for the next 5 years (1 yr into it already) They have made every Toyota in Canada one price just like Scion is here in the US, it's called "Pure Pricing"
This means that the sticker price is what you pay and then you add any extra's you want and that you get to choose.. . Toyota feels the same way as you do that the whole negoaiting for a car is the wrong way to have high customer service and expect customers to be happy with their purchase.
So they are working on it.. The problem is that the law isn't on their side and unless every dealer in the US (Toyota dealers) agree to doing it this way we can't do it.. The Laws prohibit price fixing unless every Toyota dealership is the same price, Like Saturn and Scion.
Now the way I do business in the Internet (as the internet manager at my store) is that I give one set price for each model of the car, there are a lot of models so the price does vary for Camry's (as there are 8 different models of the Camry) but it is the same for every customer no matter what.. The only problem is that the other dealers around don't do it, so in order to get the business and be competitive I still have to negoaite.. But I try to do it the right way first and then when I can't I have to play the same game as every one else OR I don't sell cars and I can't afford the Toys for my FJ....

So in your experience, You just got a ****ty dealership, there are good guys out there which don't play games, they expect you to pay a little more, but you get the customer service to go with it and that is what it's all about.. You are spending a lot, (average Toyota has an Invoice of about 28K now) and that comes with a lot of responsiblty from us to make sure you get the best in customer service for the money you are spending..

So stop looking for the lowest deal and start looking at who will treat you the way you want to be treated, as everything has a price and Good Customer service is one of those things. You do get what you pay for..

If all you care about is getting the lowest deal and beating the dealership up for it then (unfourtuntly) you don't always get the best in customer service, Not that I agree with it, I still think you deserve to be treated right.. But I am only one person and there are a lot of dealers out there...

My advise is to look for the dealer which will take care of you, pay a little more for that service and be happy with it.. Price isn't everything in this world, as you are finding out...

Hope this helps.. PM me if you want to talk..

[donnyb]

007FJ previously said:

Bam Bam:
You are right, We even think it is a broken system and it needs change..
The fact is that Toyota is doing a test market in Canada right now and for the next 5 years (1 yr into it already) They have made every Toyota in Canada one price just like Scion is here in the US, it's called "Pure Pricing"
This means that the sticker price is what you pay and then you add any extra's you want and that you get to choose.. . Toyota feels the same way as you do that the whole negoaiting for a car is the wrong way to have high customer service and expect customers to be happy with their purchase.
So they are working on it.. The problem is that the law isn't on their side and unless every dealer in the US (Toyota dealers) agree to doing it this way we can't do it.. The Laws prohibit price fixing unless every Toyota dealership is the same price, Like Saturn and Scion.
Now the way I do business in the Internet (as the internet manager at my store) is that I give one set price for each model of the car, there are a lot of models so the price does vary for Camry's (as there are 8 different models of the Camry) but it is the same for every customer no matter what.. The only problem is that the other dealers around don't do it, so in order to get the business and be competitive I still have to negoaite.. But I try to do it the right way first and then when I can't I have to play the same game as every one else OR I don't sell cars and I can't afford the Toys for my FJ....

So in your experience, You just got a ****ty dealership, there are good guys out there which don't play games, they expect you to pay a little more, but you get the customer service to go with it and that is what it's all about.. You are spending a lot, (average Toyota has an Invoice of about 28K now) and that comes with a lot of responsiblty from us to make sure you get the best in customer service for the money you are spending..

So stop looking for the lowest deal and start looking at who will treat you the way you want to be treated, as everything has a price and Good Customer service is one of those things. You do get what you pay for..

If all you care about is getting the lowest deal and beating the dealership up for it then (unfourtuntly) you don't always get the best in customer service, Not that I agree with it, I still think you deserve to be treated right.. But I am only one person and there are a lot of dealers out there...

My advise is to look for the dealer which will take care of you, pay a little more for that service and be happy with it.. Price isn't everything in this world, as you are finding out...

Hope this helps.. PM me if you want to talk..

BamBam and 007FJ both make great points. I'm in the process of trying to purchase a new FJSE. What a pain in my a$$. My trade in is what's killing me. I have a fully loaded 06 Tacoma Access Cab TRD Off-Road that I owe $23000 on, and dealers won't give me more then $19000, but have them on their lot for $26000 to $27000. The average truck just like mine in a 300 mile range goes for $26000. My truck as an Alpine DVD system, two way alarm system with remote start, back up camera, and a couple of TRD goodies.

I'm all for people making money, but I not for being screwed either. Give me a fair trade in value and a fair price on the FJ, and we'll be happy. 007FJ seems to be pretty fair. I have been emailing him about my progress on this purchase and he has been real helpful. I have even considered driving 12 hours to purchase the FJ from him. I just don't know how the out of state purchase thing would work since I'm in California. I could do it in a weekend.

[007FJ]

donnyb previously said:

BamBam and 007FJ both make great points. I'm in the process of trying to purchase a new FJSE. What a pain in my a$$. My trade in is what's killing me. I have a fully loaded 06 Tacoma Access Cab TRD Off-Road that I owe $23000 on, and dealers won't give me more then $19000, but have them on their lot for $26000 to $27000. The average truck just like mine in a 300 mile range goes for $26000. My truck as an Alpine DVD system, two way alarm system with remote start, back up camera, and a couple of TRD goodies.

I'm all for people making money, but I not for being screwed either. Give me a fair trade in value and a fair price on the FJ, and we'll be happy. 007FJ seems to be pretty fair. I have been emailing him about my progress on this purchase and he has been real helpful. I have even considered driving 12 hours to purchase the FJ from him. I just don't know how the out of state purchase thing would work since I'm in California. I could do it in a weekend.

Thanks, I try to be as fair as I can and I will always be brutaly straight forward with who ever I deal with.. My job is too hard as it is to then have to remember what Lie you told what Customer.. Just not right....

As for buying out of state.. It's not that hard just need the right proof of res in the state you live in (will pm that to you when you want) and the rest is up to you.. The only thing is that you pay taxes in your home state and have to license it your self.. Which means you need the cash to do it.. This is the only problem any one has ever had with buy a car from me out of state.. If you don't mind dealing with your local DMV and writing a big check then all is ok....

If you read through some of my post on this subject, and there are a few of them all about deals and how much different people pay in differnet area's of the US. You will see I am very passioate about my job and I love Toyota, almost to a fault,. I can sound like I am a real a#$h$$e at times and all, but I am really not.. I just don't believe some of the claimes which are made about pricing especially when those claimes are well below invoice.. A dealer has too much invested and it cost too much money to run the dealership and pay their employees and all that goes with that, to loose any money to sell somthing.. Even in hard times, it is still cheaper to sit on it and let the manafacture eat it in a rebate or somthing else to help the dealer out..

So If in other post I have come accross as an A#$, it isn't ment that way...

To all... Anything I can do to help you in getting a fair deal and to make it an easy and enjoyable experience, just pm me and we can talk.. I am all about helping you get a Toyota and loving it, not having a bad experience... I have even talked to other General Managers to smooth over the water to help out friends and family...

Let me know what I can do....

[BamBam]

You're good 007. I think it is fantastic to hear both sides of an argument. Then we come to a reasonable middle point and everybody is happy.

You do it the right way. Tell the truth (it makes things much easier, as you said). Be straightforward with EVERYBODY. Give people a price that works for the seller and the buyer.

I think we can all gladly live by that code.