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Motor oil weight

86K views 76 replies 25 participants last post by  FJtest 
#1 · (Edited)
First of all, I'd like to make it clear that we're NOT talking warranty here, obviously to protect any warranty you have to use the oil noted in the owner's manual. That said, hopefully some knowledgeable folks will comment --

In 2009, mid grade gasoline was required and 5w30 was the recommended engine oil.

In 2010, this changed to regular gasoline and 0w20. [insert discussion for premium gas when towing, etc here]

Obviously for 2010, the single VVT was changed to dual VVT and roller rockers were used. I am trying to find out if these changes are what require the thinner oil, or if you couldn't still run 5w30 (or 0w30) in a 2010+ FJ. Was the oil weight change done just to get that one additional mpg and satisfy CAFE, or is there an actual mechanical reason that the dual VVT engine requires the 20 weight oil and the single VVT doesn't?

Also, if anyone has any actual experience using 5w30 in a 2010+, your input would be appreciated.

Thanks to all replies.
 
#2 ·
They probably found the thicker oil took too long to charge the system on cold mornings. Just a SWAG.
 
#59 ·
At the temperatures these oils are rated that would be a very cold morning, I think that fuel economy drives those kinds of decision.
BTW, you could use Regular 87 gas, but engine would not make peak HP and torque without the higher grade gasoline.
My $.02 but I did have a 2007 TRDSE and I drove it 125K in 5 years and every tank was 87, no issues…..gm
 
#4 ·
Jimmiee -- 0w20 and 0w30 are the same at low temps, or are supposed to be, within the range specified for 0wxx oils.

FJ&TJ - nice chart. I see that for 2009 and earlier, the FJ could use either 5w30 or 5w20 ... which only increases the thought process; and 2010 and 11 for the Tacoma, any of the 3 oils were ok.
 
#7 ·
My bad. I thought we were talking about the difference between 5-30 and 0-20.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Great question that has been asked before, but yours is better focused.

I have a 2012 and have used 10w-30 Mobil-1 full synthetic beyond the first 1,200 mile oil change. I live in Seattle where winter night-time temperatures can dip into the 20's for a few weeks, but mid-30's at night in the winter is typical. So my point is that cold flow is not a significant factor in my operating environment.

Absolutely no issues using the above oil. I believe the Toyota spec was driven by the need to meet CAFE standards. Look at the other models in their fleet that had this change in oil weight to 0w-20 ... without any changes to the mechanical design of the engine. This provides insight as to the underlying motivation.

My interest is engine longevity. Toyota's interest is limited to the warranty period.

Bottom line ... if you have engine issues while using 10w-30 ... just change the oil back to 0w-20 before taking it to the dealership. Easy.
 
#10 ·
Great question that has been asked before, but yours is better focused.

I have a 2012 and have used 10w-30 Mobil-1 full synthetic beyond the first 1,200 mile oil change. I live in Seattle where winter night-time temperatures can dip into the 20's for a few weeks, but mid-30's at night in the winter is typical. So my point is that cold flow is not a significant factor in my operating environment.

Absolutely no issues using the above oil. I believe the Toyota spec was driven by the need to meet CAFE standards. Look at the other models in their fleet that had this change in oil weight to 0w-20 ... without any changes to the mechanical design of the engine. This provides insight as to the underlying motivation.

My interest is engine longevity. Toyota's interest is limited to the warranty period.

ASE how many miles on your FJ now? Have you ever done a UOA (used oil analysis) to see how the oil is faring?




Bottom line ... if you have engine issues while using 10w-30 ... just change the oil back to 0w-20 before taking it to the dealership. Easy.
Love it! :rocker:
 
#6 ·
And for warranty no you do not have to use that specified oil... They would have to prove that the other oil caused the damage, whatever that may be - to void your warranty, no?
 
#11 · (Edited)
This has been discussed before numerous times on this forum. To make a long story short, ever since the Fj was introduced in Australia the recommendation in the owners manual for oil is 15w40 up to 20w50 which is the same engine that we got over here.


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#13 ·
Does Toyota stipulate an oil change past the first 1200 miles? My dealer had me come in at 5k and still didn't change the oil.
I always change the oil (with filter) at 1,200 miles on a new engine ... and every 6,000 miles (with filter) thereafter, and use Mobil-1 10w-30 full synthetic in my FJ. Lower viscosity is not necessary in my climate.

This topic typically generates a firestorm of opinion. As to Toyota ... they (as all manufacturers) only care about the warranty period in terms of liability, and want to market their vehicles as "low maintenance".

Bottom line ... changing the oil at the above frequency is cheap insurance. You can listen to everyone argue about brands, oil type, oil weight(s), oil analysis, etc ... all interesting reading, but I choose to change my oil more frequently and be happy.

I rebuild engines, and do see a difference.
 
#31 ·
I'm right there with you (minus the boat of course). I run amsoil 0w30 signature series with their filter. And have done so since about 700 miles or so. The truck runs like a champ.
 
#16 ·
Most excellent feedback, I am going to get the 64mm oil filter socket and run the Mobile synthetic... Also going to get a magnetic drain plug for the engine and search for a couple magnetic plugs for the differentials as well... I suppose I can make them if none are available... Any input on the OEM oil filter or is there something better out there?
 
#17 ·
#21 ·
Another good article on Viscosity. The most misunderstood part of lubricants!

Almost every other new customer who comes in for diesel oil I run into what seems like a brick wall when suggesting a 5W40 or any thing other than a 15W-XX. Living in a cold climate my advantage is to sell the oil which I know the customer will benifit from best. Whether we are talking about 5W40 vs. 15W40 and 5W-30 vs 10W30 for diesel, 0W20 vs. 5W20 or AZO 0W30 over the ASL 5W30 for gas engines in any climate, the lower W or Winter weight offers the best performance.

About 1/2 or more believe the W or Winter weight is the actual winter viscosity. There is a misconception that the two numbers on the multi-weight are of the same type of measurement. They are not!!
The winter weight is based on a test regarding it's cold cranking resistance (Pumping Viscosity called Brookfield Viscosity measured in cenetpoise (cP)).
There is a maximum energy value allowed for each 'W' weight category. Know that this rating can effect the oil's performance all the way up the temperature curve. After examining the numbers you should see why people notice our 5W30 seems to start easier and run smoother than someone else's 5W30.

The number on the right is the actual "Primary" operating viscosity or the amount of oil that flows based on gravity during a given time at 100*C (not the amount of energy it takes but simply flow).
If a 5W30 was actually a SAE 5 in the winter as many of my customers thought, the engine would be destroyed.
My signal that they don't understand these concepts is when I'll suggest the AZO 0W30 for a car or HDD 5W30 for an older diesel and they say, "Oh, a 5 weight is way too thin for my car, it will cause too much wear.." I have to comment, Well they are both 30 weight oils. Look at the data sheets, one only flows better as it warms up. And it's closer to its operating as it warms up.
 
#22 ·
Thank you all for all the wonderful CONDENSSED information !!

I know there are lots of places to find this information, but I find myself going to the "fun" threads :(
 
#23 ·
The only advantage of synthetic oil is you can run it for extended periods.
Let's not forget temperature extremes. The synthetics do hold up better in very harsh, high heat operating conditions and do flow much better in sub zero temps. BTDT, ran dino and synthetic in those conditions and there are very noticeable differences.

DEWFPO
 
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#25 ·
It was 17 below 0 here a few years ago. The 5-30 Castrol popped my oil gauge right up and I was focused on it. :)

I agree synthetic oil has it's advantages. My 2010 CTS requires Mobil 1 and that's what I put in it. Then the little On Star lady tells me when I need to change it! LOL
 
#24 ·
So being in a climate where temps change 40+ degrees in one day, what do you suggest for a 95 suburban 4wd (160,000 miles) and 07 saturn aura (60,000 miles)?
 
#27 ·
That type of temperature swing is normal and not anything to worry about on a day to day basis. For me, it's the lowest and highest temperature I will be cold starting and operating my vehicle/ equipment in. For me, -20F to 100+F and I run either a 5W40 or 0W40 synthetic in all my vehicles/equipment year round. But that's me.

DEWFPO
 
#26 ·
OH!! (sorry to thread jack for a sec) My wife and I LOVE our On-Star lady, they are always hilarious, once trying to find an ATM downtown, she says, go straight through the light ........... but there's a building there !!! :rofl::rofl::rofl:
But seriously, we picked Verizon for cell service because that's who they used on one of our drives from Memphis to Cali.
My favorite was doing 110 in Arizona, in a Saturn :rocker:
 
#28 ·
It was 17 below 0 here a few years ago. The 5-30 Castrol popped my oil gauge right up and I was focused on it. :)

I agree synthetic oil has it's advantages. My 2010 CTS requires Mobil 1 and that's what I put in it.
I notice the biggest differences on very cold starts with engines that have inverted filters like my '07 FJ or horizontally oriented filters that drain oil out overnight or over a few days. On vehicles that have the 'proper' oil filter mounting (where the oil filter is always chock full) it seems to be much less an issue.

DEWFPO
 
#29 ·
I notice the biggest differences on very cold starts with engines that has inverted filters like my '07 FJ or horizontally oriented filters that drain oil out overnight or over a few days. On vehicles that have the 'proper' oil filter mounting (where the oil filter is always chock full) it seems to be much less an issue.

DEWFPO
Good point about the inverted filters. I guess they fill up fast enough when they are warm but I'll bet they take a little longer when its frozen outside.
 
#32 ·
Anyone using M1 0w-40 Eurospec oil in the post-'10 FJ? I believe Jayman (?) mentioned it in another thread a couple of years ago. I use that oil in two other vehicles and it's very good. (I agree that the Toyota 0w-20 OEM fill was developed for CAFE purposes. It seems to be a good oil, but not necessarily for sustained/rugged operation in summer....)
 
#36 ·
I don't know of the weights correlate to what we have in the US, but you're nuts to use a 40 weight in a motor designed for 20. There's reasons they use 20 - and you will void your warranty by using it if something goes wrong. Don't second guess the Toyota engineers. Smaller passages in newer blocks require thinner oil.
OK - now that we've got the obligatory warning by someone who doesn't understand viscosity ranges & how they work out of the way - has anyone who does understand actually used the M1 0w-40 Euro spec oil I mentioned? Is Jayman still around?

Thanks! :)
 
#34 ·
Ever since the fj was introduced in Australia and they have the same engine and the Toyota recommends 15W40 up to 20W50. And Toyota couldn't care less what happens after the warranty is over. For us here Toyota will say 0W20 because it is the minimum protection for the engine all because of government CAFE crap and fuel mileage. In some of our CAT engines that we have in the refinery the CAT recommends 15w40 which we get it from Mobile Delvac, one engine we got has almost 1 million miles on it and runs like a Swiss watch.


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#37 · (Edited)
Ok, more grist for the mill.... I saw the Euro Spec oil and wondered about the differences but passed it up for now... Then I did a little reading...

North American Engine Oils may be harmful to European Engines

I am of the opinion that all the "EP" "High Mileage" "Super Duper Purple Stuff" and such is fine and has a purpose and a market however, If we care enough to research and fret about such matters then we probably care enough to change the oil before any of these added protections, benefits and specifications will kick in... IE: Sludge, Scuffing, break down and excessive wear issues... Further more if the past is any indication of the future in regards to Toyota engine life, I have to have some faith, albiet not much that the engineers at Toyota have done their homework in regards to the recommended specifications for oils for their vehicles... However I do find the Australian weight specs intriguing and will lean towards using those more than the 0 - 20W CAFE minimum protection stuff.... 20W just doesn't seem to be enough for the long haul.

More interesting reading... Isn't the internet great! ?

http://www.zddplus.com/TechBrief2 - ZDDP and Cam Wear - Just Another Engine Oil Myth.pdf
 
#40 ·
I've been running 5w-50 (0W-20 specified on oil cap) for 10,500 miles now in my FJ. My previous car that specified 5W-30 I used the same 5W-50 oil for 60,000 miles with no problem.

The question is: Do you want to save fuel at the cost of increased engine wear with lighter weight oil? Or, sacrifice fuel milage for better engine protection with a heaver weight oil? The choice is yours and please do your own research.

My guess, since they are discontinuing the FJ, is that you want your FJ to last as long as possible if engine replacement is of no burden.
 
#43 ·
I've been running 5w-50 (0W-20 specified on oil cap) for 10,500 miles now in my FJ. My previous car that specified 5W-30 I used the same 5W-50 oil for 60,000 miles with no problem.



The question is: Do you want to save fuel at the cost of increased engine wear with lighter weight oil? Or, sacrifice fuel milage for better engine protection with a heaver weight oil? The choice is yours and please do your own research.



My guess, since they are discontinuing the FJ, is that you want your FJ to last as long as possible if engine replacement is of no burden.

Right on. Cheers


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#41 ·
I've been running the recommended weight in my 11' 0w-20 for 60K. Decided to switch to 5w-30, based on extensive readings and conversations. That said, I also sent the 0w-20 oil in for analysis (BlackStone) to get results. On my next oil change, I'll send in the 5w-30 and get a comparison.

Going forward, I'll stick with 5w-30; specially since it's hot as heck during the summers in AZ.
 
#44 ·
Here are the results from my Oil Analysis. Fj has 60K on it, pulled the oil at 5K interval with Amsoil 0w-20. I changed the oil to 5w-30 on my last oil change and will pull the interval at 7K and post another report in the coming months.

Happy that the 0w-20 has been sufficient weight up to 60K, but feel with the heat in AZ (Summer Months) it may not be the best for long-term wear. I also tow a-lot and and drive it off-road a bunch.

Keep you guys posted

 
#45 ·
The FJ engine runs pretty cool to begin with. Plus the fan is constantly cooling the engine. I really dont see reasons to go thicker since how good these engines are.
 
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