Field Maneuvers – Is the FJ ready when driven off the showroom floor?

[Kansas Law Dog]

Field Maneuvers – Is it ready when driven off the showroom floor?

Okay, let’s talk about issues that make the FJ off-road capable: 1) mechanical and technical features and 2) driver’s accommodations. My definition of off-road capable is traveling over terrain (off-the-beaten-path) that requires a vehicle with 4WD, good low gearing, adequate clearance, and toughness. Rubicon or other challenges, that are basically test tracks, are beyond the basic definition of off-road capable.

This discussion will ignore (downplay anyway) items I consider personal preference, both mechanical and cosmetic. Mechanical items that are preferential (I my estimation) rather than a necessity are bumpers, tires, extra-lift, winch, snorkel, front locker, and solid front axle. Toyota partially anticipated the mechanical wish list with the offering of tire and rock rail options. Furthermore, the after market fabricators will be all over this vehicle shortly to satisfy the cravings and needs of the hard-core.

Cosmetic items that don’t fit the off-road capable definition are power operators (window, mirrors, locks), sound systems, exhaust upgrade, roof rack, alloy wheels, sonar, remote keyless, cruise control, extra lighting, colors and accents. Furthermore, back seat comfort and observable visibility from people (other than the driver) do not come under the definition of off-road capable. Many will say that I want this or that, well I want some of these things too. However, these features are not required for this truck to be off-road capable – the point of this discussion.

Does it qualify mechanically and technically? The vehicle has adequate ground clearance, robust drive train, satisfactory suspension articulation, proper skid plates (except gas tank – I’ll come back to this), excellent approach/departure manners, good breakover angle, sufficient fording depth, and control systems to coordinate the equipment functions. I believe Toyota sidestepped the front locker issue because it designed A-Trac to perform this function, and in their eyes, does it better. Actually Toyota thinks A-Trac eliminated the need for a rear locker too, but chose to provide it anyway, while shutting off the A-Trac during its use. Real shortcomings: 1) A-Trac is only available with costly upgrade packages (that contain primarily comfort versus necessity items - why they mixed these two completely different characteristics is anybody’s guess) and 2) a hard bounce after breakover could be crippling if gasoline tank (skid) makes contact with sharp rock. Even so, the simple answer is yes; this truck is ready for field maneuvers right out the showroom door. Grade A-.

How has the driver been accommodated? Toyota provided the driver with good ergonomics to read instruments and operate controls (some have expressed a minor compliant about reach to shift the manual transmission). Tilt steering and adjustable seat will make the driver comfortable to the task of driving. Head, leg and shoulder room is adequate. The short coming is driver visibility that include:

1) seeing all four corners of the FJ (which can be learned to some extent in time) and over the hood to view obstacles that disappear from sight 12-20 feet forward of the front bumper,
2) the blind spot in the sides behind the driver can be adapted too for highway travel with side mirrors, but changing lanes is still challenging and backing up over off-road terrain is difficult (more on this later),
3) the ratio of glass area to total area of the vertical sides behind the driver is smaller than many competitive 4x4 vehicles restricting rear observing ability when looking over your shoulder,
4) the rear-view mirror function is limited due to spare tire (knowing how close you are to a stationary object directly behind the vehicle is pretty much guess work without the sonar option), and
5) seeing forward objects above the plane of the roof, such as traffic signal lights or landmarks providing navigation aids, requires the driver to reposition their heads more than most vehicles due in part to the low vertical height of the windows.

Off-road etiquette on a single lane path requires the vehicle proceeding downhill to backup to where two vehicles can pass each other. It is much safer to back uphill than down hill. Encounters of this nature occur frequently on narrow mountain roads. Without good visibility the driver has to rely heavily on the mirrors. Vision obtained through the mirrors on this vehicle is average, but the driver’s view by turning his head to view though the glass area is inadequate. Sonar only alerts to solid objects and doesn’t help at all if the vehicle backs over the edge of a steep embankment. (Where else you ask – Elephant Hill in Moab has a three-section switchback that one goes forward on two sections and backward on the middle section). This is a compromise to safe off-road driving - IMO.

Designers forgot about the most important human sense, eyesight and the seeing ability from the driver’s seat. A vehicle can be mechanically and technically the best, but if the driver doesn’t feel in total control, the lack of confidence detracts from its capability. Therefore, I rate the component for driver accommodation as good for seating and access to controls, but poor for seeing ability. Grade C-.

As you would expect, a first year production model will have good and bad points, so now it is up to the manufacturer to correct deficiencies. In final analysis, is this vehicle off-road capable? Yes. Overall rating, I give it a Grade B-.

The opinions are mine and mine alone. I wanted a thread that limits discussion to what makes the FJ Cruiser off-road capable. Please stay on point and don’t let this platform become a place to talk about cool wheels, big tires, full roof racks, heated mirrors, ARB bumpers, sunroofs, new colors, better subwoofer, diesel engines, side air curtains, AT versus MT, interior accents, daylight lights, sleeping accommodates and so forth.

[chtucker]

Here is my take as a former Jeep TJ owner/Ford Excursion/1977 Ford Bronco onwer (still have the bronco)

The Toyota excels at what it was designed for. Off the beaten path exploring. To take the Jeep rock crawling it ended up being alot of money to upgrade/upkeep. The Jeep was fun while it lasted. I took it down to Montrose, indepedance trai system, Buena Vista Carnage, Moab, Johnson Valley, Rubicon and the Hammers.

What will I use the FJ for, all the mining roads, back country trails here in Colorado and a venture or two to Moab.

It will go all over the Silverton/Ouray area, easily tackle Tincup, Han**** and Tomichi.

The visibility out the rear is more hindered by the headrests than the C pillars. Will I miss the soft top/removable top HELL NO. Only benefit was not worrying about windows with low hanging trees.

The Toyota is a MUCH MUCH better vehicle to drive on a regular basis. Less noise, better street manners, more comfortable. And I can say without question it is going to be better in the snow. The short wheelbase wrangler wanted to go round and round. Wife rolled it once on the road.

Toyota reliability and resale value.

I have no intentions of taking it where the Jeep went, it was fun, but it cost ALOT to keep it going... Forgetting about body damage, it was getting ripped apart (ARBs, Hi-pinion 9" up front, Dana 44 rear, 35 MTRs Atlas 3.8) Shock mounts, track bars, steerings and lots of other stuff.

For Colorado I think it is a A-. Few things I would like to change... front locker, just because, stock bumper capable of winch, better tires.. A few niceties for the snowy winter.... heated wipers/heated washer fluid (like a subaru)... LED lights all around for ease of maintainence. Better idea for a navigation system. More power points for cell phone/ipod.

Nothing big, for me it is about perfect.

Howard

[Kansas Law Dog]

Howard - good post. This is just the type of dialog I hoped for. You've got your FJ a coulple days ago and have had a chance to put a few miles on it.

Are you saying that backing up a couple hundred yards on an old mining trail won't be a big deal? If you feel mirrors and/or looking back over your shoulder will get it done, that will be a big comfort. Can you pickup the red tail light lenses by looking in your side mirrors? This will go a long way toward defining the back corners of the vehicle. All the curves on vehicles these days to improve wind resistence, doesn't help with knowing exactly where the ends of the vehicle are when you know you are close to a stationary object.

I can see your point about the heated mirrors in your part of the world, Canada and upper U.S.; heated fluids and block heater too. I don't experience the snow here, so the stock tires won't be as big an issue, until they wear out, or I have a less than happy experience, which ever comes first.

Ken

[chtucker]

Mirrors are great for backing, I always worry about backing up as there could always be a diff biting rock. Better visibility out the rear view mirror won't help that.

Power mirrors also help behind able to move them around to scan the terrain

After a few rollover deaths down in the Silverton area, I will always have a spotter back me up in any touchy situation. Not worth the risk.

My wife has been driving my GMC 5500 topkick flatbed plow truck since August when we sold our excursion. She hopped in the FJ and said who cares about a rear view mirror. She got used to driving without it. Only thing she said it would be good for is watching the rear seat if you have kids. The only sorta bad visibility problem I see (no pun) is the view to passenger side at an intersection if you don't approach it at a 90degree angle.

My mom's sebring convertible has worse visibility.

[meat]

I took a day trip up to Big Bear in an auto equipped fairly loaded FJC today with a neighbor who just got one and wanted to see how it would do. There was snow last week, but no chains were required today. We went to my old cabin, scooted downtown and up around Moon Ridge.

We took 18 up, which is a fairly unobtrusive winding mountain road, got to do some passing and generally had a cautious drive up (my neighbor is a wus).

My old cabin is around over in Fawnskin, and you get to it by driving between the bushes, up a dirt trail and then between the trees. In order to come back down, you do have to back down the idea of a dirt road, then do a three point turn, and then it's all downhill from there.

Downtown is ... well, downtown. You nose in to parking places, back out try to change lanes without running into speeding kids up there to snowboard, and park where pinecones won't fall on your car.

We took the 330 back down (because I was driving), which is a windy, occasionally trecherous, sometimes downright dangerous and fairly steep road with some banked turns, narrow spots and rocks that 'just fall.'

We also drove on the freeway to and from the mountains.

Overall, I continue to be impressed with the FJC. It's on-road manners are terrific (I really can't compare it to any other 4x4, it drives better and is much tighter), although I do wish for a bit more power to pass on the freeway.

Offroad, it can handle mud, snow, and unpaved surfaces that could possibly pass for fire roads and hiking paths very well. The one thing that the FJC does, which is a welcome change from other rigs I've driven up the mountain, is instill the driver with confidence.

I was the one who drove the truck backwards down the fire road, did the 3-point turn, drove down the muddy hill, and drove home down the 330. It is somewhat problematic to see what's close behind the FJC, but using the side mirrors when turning seems to eliminate the blind spot.

The sonar DID NOT pick up a tree stump that was behind the truck. I did back up as close as I dared (which turned out to be 3ish feet away), but I didn't get nary a ping.

Antilock brakes on ice are, as always, entertaining. The system did recover quicker than I expected it to, although the brakes continue to surprise me by how good they are from the factory.

The trip down the mountain was like giving birth. No kidding. My neighbor kept inhaling and exhaling faster and faster to the point I thought for sure she was going to pop out a kid or a kidney or something. Although I'm not overly fond of automatics for twisty mountain roads, the FJC handled everything like a champ. I even got to pass a suburan and a minivan. I was ever so excited. Ever so.

Out of the box, this rig is amazing. Adapting to the quirks is relatively quick and painless. I really do feel confident in the FJC, and so did my neighbor - who had never been off road ever. I do have to train her better, though; as soon as we got back she dropped me off and hurried over to get the truck washed. I didn't even have time to go in and get a camera to take a picture!

High marks and a "wow!" for the whole trip.

Your pal,
Meat.

[Kruiser]

Good report.

I guess Poor rear visibility is due to " Toyota wanted to keep as much of the initial design intact as possiple" as stated in FJC magzine.

I felt FJ's passing power in highway is very good though. 60->80mph seems effortless and TRD exhaust sounds nice (maybe too loud for some people

The sonar DID NOT pick up a tree stump that was behind the truck. I did back up as close as I dared (which turned out to be 3ish feet away), but I didn't get nary a ping.

3 feet maybe still too far away

[RoverGGM]

Kruiser previously said:

Good report.

I guess Poor rear visibility is due to " Toyota wanted to keep as much of the initial design intact as possiple" as stated in FJC magzine.

I felt FJ's passing power in highway is very good though. 60->80mph seems effortless and TRD exhaust sounds nice (maybe too loud for some people



3 feet maybe still too far away

At 3 feet you are just short of it's described threshold for activation (35.4 ") width of "beam" is around 70.9 " and it should detect around 19.7 inches (both above and below combined) the rear bumper

[meat]

RoverGGM previously said:

At 3 feet you are just short of it's described threshold for activation (35.4 ") width of "beam" is around 70.9 " and it should detect around 19.7 inches (both above and below combined) the rear bumper

I kind of thought so, which is why I wanted to make sure that I looked at where I backed up to so that I could report on it. If it was my rig, I probably would have gone closer (I've got great insurance!).

She's begun backing the FJC into her garage at night, so I guess she feels comfortable with the sensor system (or she's really, really, lucky!).

Your pal,
Meat.

[Kansas Law Dog]

Meat - thanks for the insightful post on the road trip. Good report. Several of my original concerns are becoming non-events. This is positive.

Did you happen to drive with the windows down while going 25-45 mph? I'm interested in whether the air swirl cause an alloying resonance. On another thread I have expressed concern about airflow through the inside cabin when the front window are down.

[Mongo]

I've put 250 miles on mine, driving at speeds up to 75mph.

No resonance.

Tried it with both windows open, and with just one down as well.