Five Dollar Per Gallon Gas

[RoverGGM]

firemedic previously said:

What do we save first: the environment or the economy?

We have to save the environment at all costs. Haven't you been paying attention? Global warming marches on and we must sacrifice whether it has any effect on the climate or not, as long as it makes us "feeeeeeel better". Now, sit up straighter in your wooden chair....people in third world countries don't even have chairs.


Next crisis: Potable water supplies worldwide will cause us to "have to" give up all kinds of other things. Who doesn't like the "environment" and "water".

[jayman]

firemedic previously said:

I read somewhere that if we began domestic drilling we would be looking at oil being less than $60 a barrel. If this is the case then where's the debate? The environment?! What do we save first: the environment or the economy?

Although anything is possible - and I try to keep an open mind in such discussions - it is highly improbable that domestic oil production will lower prices to the range you stated

It's true that there are vast reserves of crude and shale within North America and immediately offshore. However, that crude and shale has a very low EROEI compared to the cheap oil from the Mid East, Africa, and South America.

As an example, the Tar Sands in Alberta, Canada, is remarkably expensive to extract. During the 1980's-1990's when oil was under $20 a barrel, the Tar Sands was nothing more than a curiosity and was considered a tax-grab boondoogle. Billions of Canadian taxpayer dollars was sunk into the Tar Sands project, and only in the last 2 years has it gone to break-even and now slight profitability

Another example is the Hibernia system located in the Terra Nova field, near the Grand Banks of Newfoundland. Despite only "moderate" ocean depths in that area - under 300 ft - the depth to oil and logistical investment requires a minimum oil price of almost $70/barrel to break even.

A Crown Corporation - Hibernia Management Development Company - was required to operate Hibernia, as the massive captial cost meant that many potential partners decided to bail out. So for most of the Hibernia pumping history, it operated at a steep taxpayer-funded loss. It's possible that with the recent rise in oil prices, the remainder of the Terra Nova field will break-even and have a slight overall profit

ANWR presents us with similar challenges, which must be fully understood. With current and projected oil prices, it makes sense to have AMWR as a standby and a contribution to total reserves

Although I fully support exploitation of our natural resources, I do so for long-term stability. There will be little if any cost savings, as the vast majority of this oil is locked in very tight geological strata, which in part explains the difference between inplace oil and recoverable oil

[jayman]

RoverGGM previously said:

Next crisis: Potable water supplies worldwide

Actually, the modern petrochemical process or "oil refinery" has an almost 1:1 ratio of crude to potable water consumption. Desalting, distillation, reboilers, hydrotreating and hydrocracking, fluidic catalytic cracking, all contribute to steep process water consumption.

The process water must be just as clean as typical city water, otherwise the boilers, steam piping, and catalysts will all clog with deposits.

[TitaniumMPLS]

I knew what I was getting into when I bought the FJ over a year ago. All of us should have suspected that oil would do nothing but increase during our lifetimes.

On short term personal levels... it hurts. But in the long run I think high increases in gas prices will help stimulate innovation so that we won't have to rely on unstable govts with large oil reserves.

I actually read all of the previous posts because it was very cool to see all of the different perspectives coming from all over.

We chose to be city folk so that we won't have to worry about commuting. And at various times we've thought about moving, but right now it's nice to see the metro areas making a comeback because people are moving closer to the downtown areas.

Honestly, with all of the news stories about various companies changing how they drive and how much they drive (i.e. UPS saving 1k's just by changing their delivery routes), companies have gotten lazy. When consumption starts decreasing (as it is starting) prices will level out. But that doesn't mean we should take a holiday from finding smarter ways to get stuff done.