get off of your high horse

[Woodsman]

1983FJ60 previously said:

the times you can charge premiums for your cars are long dead. that was back when your cars lasted forever and were rock solid.

While the FJ is very capable, I think too much of the manufacturing time/money was spent on the frilly stuff . . . and remember, Toyota isn't what it once was in terms of quality. They've dropped and others have gained.

5150 Cruiser previously said:

Still not as bad as Chevy. I went in looking at a new Camaro and they had a 5k mark up. I asked if they would take sticker, and the sales guy did everything he could to keep from laughing at me. He says..
"Sorry, but the mark up stays."
So i started laughing back at him.
He asks me..
"And what are you laughing at?"
I tell him..
"The fact that your company just declared bankruptcy and at any time this dealer could get the call that they will be one of the ones being closed down,... But yet you still don't want to deal. Good luck with that."

He wasn't smiling, nor laughing after that. Really is sad though. It wasn't like i was asking them to sell it to me at cost.

That is the amusing truth for so called "high demand" new models. They should be happy if they get sticker.

rrjames previously said:

So soon we forget that were not driving a Toyota. We're all riving Hino's with a Toyota driveline.

Oh, how right you are. Around my part of the country Hino trucks are consider the lesser of all the box trucks, below Isuzu/GMC, Ford, International, etc.

[5150 Cruiser]

Woodsman previously said:

Oh, how right you are. Around my part of the country Hino trucks are consider the lesser of all the box trucks, below Isuzu/GMC, Ford, International, etc.

My buddy who is a heavy duty diesel tech tells me that Hino's are no known for the reliability, and are very expensive to maintain/fix, and are under powered compared to the competion. Hopfully it won't be engine of choice if Toyota ever puts a diesel in the FJ or Tundra.

[riggo32]

I don't normally reply to these types of posts but I would like to put my two cents in worth. I work for Toyota (not sales) and help with the design and implementation of new vehicles. A lot of the problems that you are seeing with the light (frail) body designs and other integrations (Hino) are many times the result of what the customer is asking for. For example, the light body design on many of the toyota vehicles is a result of Toyota trying to save weight and then improve on fuel mileage. Our number one JD Powers complaint on the vehicle line that I work for is fuel mileage so we are trying everything we can to save an ounce or two here and there. One of the easiest ways is body weight reduction. Most people just do not use the vehicles the way we do here on the forum. They are daily drivers and every once in a while they haul some dirt or something in the back. I could go on and on with this but I do want to say that I have worked for several other companies and Toyota is one of the few companies where we really do try and think of the customer first.

[Corey]

Very good post riggo.
I am a firm believer in Toyota quality having owned four of them now.

And yes, the rigs can not be bullet proof of they would weigh a ton more than they do now.
And the average owner of these may not ever take them off road either.

Part of the philosophy why Toyota does not have solid axle vehicles over here as the demand for them is not enough.
There are way more people driving the 4x4s than there are that are on forums such as this and others.

Toyota has to cater to the masses here, and that means daily driver.

So I totally get what you are saying.

[Woodsman]

riggo32 previously said:

I don't normally reply to these types of posts but I would like to put my two cents in worth. I work for Toyota (not sales) and help with the design and implementation of new vehicles. A lot of the problems that you are seeing with the light (frail) body designs and other integrations (Hino) are many times the result of what the customer is asking for. For example, the light body design on many of the toyota vehicles is a result of Toyota trying to save weight and then improve on fuel mileage. Our number one JD Powers complaint on the vehicle line that I work for is fuel mileage so we are trying everything we can to save an ounce or two here and there. One of the easiest ways is body weight reduction. Most people just do not use the vehicles the way we do here on the forum. They are daily drivers and every once in a while they haul some dirt or something in the back. I could go on and on with this but I do want to say that I have worked for several other companies and Toyota is one of the few companies where we really do try and think of the customer first.

That is a good point but . . . it is something that all vehicle manufacturers have to deal with and have been dealing with for years. As an example, the 1/2 ton pickups the Big 3 produces are bigger and heavier than ever yet they are getting better highway mileage now than in the past.

It sickened me last year and earlier this year when the Big 3 were catching hell for making such inefficient vehicles while Toyota was getting patted on the back. I was thinking, WTF, haven't these people ever been on a Toyota lot and looked at all the lines of fuel-hog SUVs they produce. At the time GM was manufacturing more models that offered 30 mpg or more than Toyota.

BTW, I have nothing against Toyota but I think they get much more credit than they deserve for "saving the world".

[BurnBro]

I haven't posted much over the past three years, but as you can see have been a member for quite a while and own one of the first FJ's sold here in the U.S. after the original launch (VIN 1310).

I've have also worked on the Mfr Finance side of the auto business for the past 25+ years. During that time I've been a manager level employee for General Motors, Toyota, Nissan and Mitsubishi. I can tell you first hand and confidently that the reason people are willing to purchase Toyotas, even at a premium is that they are not interested in getting taken advantage (again) by the domestics. Whatever reputation GM, Ford and Chrysler now have they have earned in spades. Their quality may well have improved, but the real question for consumers is should they take a chance on a domestic. I know I wouldn't, even for $10K in rebates.

My FJ has been bullet proof since purchase. Two recalls, tires and FJammer, both fully and professionally replaced. To be clear, I don't now work for Toyota, but I challenge anyone on this site to advising of a brand they would rather be paying for and driving. I fully expect to get at least 250K miles on my rig, hands down.

At the end of the day, it isn't about price, it's about value. If you want a cheap rig buy a Hyundai or a Kia. Consumer Reports has started to like them. Let's see what is running at 250K miles.

[riggo32]

Woodsman previously said:

That is a good point but . . . it is something that all vehicle manufacturers have to deal with and have been dealing with for years. As an example, the 1/2 ton pickups the Big 3 produces are bigger and heavier than ever yet they are getting better highway mileage now than in the past.

It sickened me last year and earlier this year when the Big 3 were catching hell for making such inefficient vehicles while Toyota was getting patted on the back. I was thinking, WTF, haven't these people ever been on a Toyota lot and looked at all the lines of fuel-hog SUVs they produce. At the time GM was manufacturing more models that offered 30 mpg or more than Toyota.

BTW, I have nothing against Toyota but I think they get much more credit than they deserve for "saving the world".

Woodsman, you are so right about one thing. Toyota is not out to "save the world". We are here to make a buck just like every one else. If the customer wants a gas guzzler, we will give it to them, if they want a Prius, we will also give them that.

[Woodsman]

riggo32 previously said:

Woodsman, you are so right about one thing. Toyota is not out to "save the world". We are here to make a buck just like every one else. If the customer wants a gas guzzler, we will give it to them, if they want a Prius, we will also give them that.

. . . and to be fair, it is obvious that even though Toyota was in a much better position over the last couple of years, having not been taking it where the sun don't shine by the unions, they have still been hurt in a major way by the poor economy and higher average gas prices.

Honda, though they've slowed down some production, is still profitable . . . and they don't produce any V8 vehicles . . . but . . . though it may not have a V8, my neighbor's Honda Pilot only averaged about 16 mpg. He traded it this spring for a Ford Escape Hybrid and he's been averaging close to 30 since then.

[fj in nepa]

1983FJ60 previously said:

i went to a dealership today to get some bulbs and saw a "new" 08 4x2 sunfu sitting on the lot.

nothing special, but it stickered for 30k.

toyota, get over it.

the times you can charge premiums for your cars are long dead. that was back when your cars lasted forever and were rock solid.

the frail plasticky things you sell these days are NOT the land cruisers of 1980 that could run 300k miles as long as the body didn't rot off.

rattles, squeaks, bulging fenders, frail clutches, whining belts, idler pulleys, soft bodies. you have a lot of nerve to piss on the reputation of rock solid vehicles you have established.

count to 10

[JVT]

fj in nepa previously said:

count to 10