A lot of people are just pigs, and they ruin it for everyone else. It's a shame. Yes, the responsible among us are going to have to literally pick up after the pigs if 4x4ing is to remain alive...
TONTO NATIONAL FOREST, Ariz. -- Near a rock formation twisting into the Arizona sky, the desert floor has been torn up by off-road vehicles. There's a tattered VCR and a bullet-riddled washing machine lying in a heap.
Unscrupulous visitors have chosen this spot filled with prickly green cactuses in the Tonto National Forest outside Phoenix to tear up with their ATVs, illegally dump garbage and shoot guns.
......
We have some areas around Tucson that are basically shooting areas. The piles of metal and trash mound up around shards and casings all strewn with plastic bags and boxes.
It pains me when the state or BLM has to use offroad dollars to clean up these "shooting dumps". A tax on ammo could be used to pay for education and remediation on these specific areas. The forest service has said they will no longer clean the Reddington pass shooting areas, and I say fine.
The problem is when it impacts the 4Wheelers, and makes it look like we all throw trash on the ground and shoot it.
I applaud the spirit of this thread and all efforts to educate people about proper trail use and sensitivity to the issues at hand, but like some of the other posters here, I feel there are just so many people out there who are idiots and who feel its their god given right to do what they want in their free country. So far I havent seen where history has proven that a very few smart, nice people can undo the bad work of many, many dumb, mean people. Try telling average Joe on the trail to stop driving off the trail, throwing garbage and ammunition around & burning his styrofoam cooler & lawn chair at the end of the long weekend and you are likely to get assaulted. Normally if I confront someone on these issues, I get a quick 'i can do what a f-in want'. People like this arent gonna take courses to learn to be nice to the environment and they arent gonna listen to me unless i get aggressive beyond my comfort level. Sadly a few jerks do ruin it for the rest of us & thats why trails have to be closed.
based on how many people i saw walking all over the alpine tundra at the last summit i would say most people on this forum don't know whats going on.
One of the things that pains me the most on this forum, are the number of photos of our FJ brethern blasting thru water in desert areas, just to see their rig get muddy. These little bits of water, in a stream, creek, or just in a dirt road, are sources of water for wild animals. Now they're turned into undrinkable mud pits. In the West and other places in this country there is a severe drought, so not only is water being destroyed for the wildlife, but now, how many gallons is it going to take to wash your FJ????
My wife and I hike quite a bit and the amount of destruction we see by @ssholes with arrested developement, is sickening.
As a native Arizonian and my family native of Colorado, my heart does not bleed anymore when areas are closed off. Especially after seeing the mindless destruction thrashed upon that environment.
So if ya'll want to call me a tree hugger, fine. That's your problem..
There's a big world out there, step out of your rig sometime and check it out.
Abophx....
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One of the things that pains me the most on this forum, are the number of photos of our FJ brethern blasting thru water in desert areas, just to see their rig get muddy. These little bits of water, in a stream, creek, or just in a dirt road, are sources of water for wild animals. Now they're turned into undrinkable mud pits. In the West and other places in this country there is a severe drought, so not only is water being destroyed for the wildlife, but now, how many gallons is it going to take to wash your FJ????
My wife and I hike quite a bit and the amount of destruction we see by @ssholes with arrested developement, is sickening.
As a native Arizonian and my family native of Colorado, my heart does not bleed anymore when areas are closed off. Especially after seeing the mindless destruction thrashed upon that environment.
So if ya'll want to call me a tree hugger, fine. That's your problem..
There's a big world out there, step out of your rig sometime and check it out.
Abophx....
I think I agree with what you are saying in principle, but to say that driving a muddy trail is depriving an animal of water is going a bit overboard. There are plenty of holes off the trail that fill with water too.
I think I agree with what you are saying in principle, but to say that driving a muddy trail is depriving an animal of water is going a bit overboard. There are plenty of holes off the trail that fill with water too.
Really? Then I must not know the subtlelty of my native Sonoran desert. Two weeks ago my wife and I came upon a small pool in the hardpacked area of a road. After hiking 5 hours we determined that was the only water for miles. So there were not plenty of water holes and it only would take one yahoo to destroy it.....
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Location: native California gal, now expat in Germany
Posts: 1,850
Re: What do you believe?
Quote:
abophx previously said:
Really? Then I must not know the subtlelty of my native Sonoran desert. Two weeks ago my wife and I came upon a small pool in the hardpacked area of a road. After hiking 5 hours we determined that was the only water for miles. So there were not plenty of water holes and it only would take one yahoo to destroy it.....
I think people who don't live in drought prone areas don't really understand... water is a hot commodity in CA. I'm with ya, abophx. We are avid hikers as well. Basically I see offroading as a means to get to a hike/ remote area; I'm not AS much into it for the sake of just doing it.
Anyway, yeah, if that makes us tree huggers, so be it. Why don't y'all call me your trail trash picker upper instead.
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Last edited by VoodooBrew : 10-11-2007 at 01:14 PM.
I think people who don't live in drought prone areas really understand... water is a hot commodity in CA. I'm with ya, abophx. We are avid hikers as well. Basically I see offroading as a means to get to a hike/ remote area; I'm not AS much into it for the sake of just doing it.
Anyway, yeah, if that makes us tree huggers, so be it. Why don't y'all call me your trail trash picker upper instead.
All right! You hit the nail on the head. Thanks, rep points to you....
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it would be nice if the trail teams or the summit guys would do this, it's thier event, it's thier responsibility
They DID emphasis this issue. We heard the message more than once while at the summit. I knew it was fragile but didn't realize it was as fragile as the trail team indicated. Of course we are/were fairly new to offroading so we tried to attend all the trail team presentations and the one that landcruiserSteve gave. Maybe there were some folks that either didn't attend those presentations or didn't hear or care. At least on the 2 runs we made I didn't see any off trail damge being done.
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This right hear is the problem with are nation, always trying to pass the buck.
It is everyones responsibility to do and teach the right thing, to fight for the truth!
Amen to that Jeshua, It is each and everyone of our responsibility to teach it. We are as guilty as those who do it if we do not. Turning a blind eye is worse that murder in this case. The people will react poitively , and if they do not F*ck them, they are having a hugh negative impact on your Hobby. If they do not want to hear it. tell them to get of the land. When those trails are closed you will have wished you had. But then it waill be to late.
Being Proactive about this is no longer an option, it is the only way to save trails. Either get on the bus, or get lost.
A lot of people are just pigs, and they ruin it for everyone else. It's a shame. Yes, the responsible among us are going to have to literally pick up after the pigs if 4x4ing is to remain alive...
TONTO NATIONAL FOREST, Ariz. -- Near a rock formation twisting into the Arizona sky, the desert floor has been torn up by off-road vehicles. There's a tattered VCR and a bullet-riddled washing machine lying in a heap.
Unscrupulous visitors have chosen this spot filled with prickly green cactuses in the Tonto National Forest outside Phoenix to tear up with their ATVs, illegally dump garbage and shoot guns.
......
organize a cleanup getting the forestry service involved. that is how we started Calico, one man pushed for 4 months and now we are the jewel of the area
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