5,000 Mile Oil Change

[RomaBoy]

Mike H previously said:

I'm am Amsoil dealer so I got it at cost. It definitely costs more than regular oil but I don't have to change the oil or filter for 20,000 miles or one year so in the long run it is cheaper than changing your oil and filter every 3,000 miles. Plus your engine runs cooler and your gas mileage goes up. It used to be that although the oil would last 20,000 miles the filter would have to changed every 5,000 miles but with the new EAO57 filter it lasts as long as the oil. PM me if you need additional information.

Warranty question, what if on the outside chance something goes wrong with your motor and you didn't follow Toyota's recommended oil change intervals of 5K or 6 months? Toyota will wiggle out of a warranty claim if they can.

[Brock]

how would they know unless they could prove it through oil analysis? if you follow a routine of maintenance that is recommended by your oil manufacturer with a good high quality filter element......then i believe they would be hard pressed to prove that your oil change regime was the reason for the failure. With Mobil 1, AMSOIL, REDLINE, etc....they are not going to make some outlandish claim and usually will error on side of conservative numbers to be safe.

I have followed my own regime and had engines last 250,000 miles with no issues or problems and still running strong off synthetic oil......this was my Jeep Cherokee I bought in 1994 and sold last year. Everyone else has issues with them but it was my most reliable vehicle to date.

[kokopelli]

They (factory warranty folks) have been known to ask for evidence of scheduled maintenance. Ron

Brock previously said:

how would they know unless they could prove it through oil analysis? if you follow a routine of maintenance that is recommended by your oil manufacturer with a good high quality filter element......then i believe they would be hard pressed to prove that your oil change regime was the reason for the failure. With Mobil 1, AMSOIL, REDLINE, etc....they are not going to make some outlandish claim and usually will error on side of conservative numbers to be safe.

I have followed my own regime and had engines last 250,000 miles with no issues or problems and still running strong off synthetic oil......this was my Jeep Cherokee I bought in 1994 and sold last year. Everyone else has issues with them but it was my most reliable vehicle to date.

[jayman]

Brock previously said:

Welcome....I had (until the FJ) a Dodge 2500 Cummins 4x4 myself.....ran AMSOIL in it all around. Expensive to get it all changed but it definitely made a difference. I waited until 10,000 miles on my Dodge...not sure why. LOL

Cummins, like most HD diesel engine companies, will usually recommend waiting up to 20 K before switching to synthetic. If you work the truck at max tow rating from day 1, you're safe to switch at 5 K.

[jayman]

Blown383 previously said:

Maybe its personal preference but on my 96' Honda Accord EX-V6, I've used the cheapest conventional dino oil I could find. I changed the oil and filter every 3,000 miles and on a few occasions probably went a few thousand over.
-B

In a moderate climate, that is fine. I guess the biggest issue I have with our crap minimum-spec North American oils is that we are encouraged to have among the shortest oil change intervals on the planet

In the EU, running their "minimum spec" ACEA A1 oils, most cars have a 12 month or 10,000 mile interval. No apparent issues I have seen. The Opel, VW, BMW, etc with LongLife servicing (Oil monitor, special synthetic oils, etc) offer up to a 2 year or 30,000 mile interval

Where a synthetic is essential is any climate where the ambient temps are consistently colder than -30 C. Min spec API oils don't offer any protection against ring land fill, crown land fill, cold sludge, etc. They also don't offer cold start pumping protection

[jayman]

RomaBoy previously said:

Warranty question, what if on the outside chance something goes wrong with your motor and you didn't follow Toyota's recommended oil change intervals of 5K or 6 months? Toyota will wiggle out of a warranty claim if they can.

That's a good question

Let's suppose there is a hidden manufacturing defect somewhere, say a hairline crack in a connecting rod that made it past routine inspection. You're driving along and BANG steam and oil are all over the place.

In that case, let's also suppose you were running Amsoil and changing the oil and filter every 12 months. With a hidden defect, you could change the oil and filter every Saturday morning and that wouldn't prevent the failure. Could Toyota wiggle out of a warranty repair? Sure, I guess

Or, how about the sludge issue that Toyota had to cough up in that class action? I wonder how many of those motors had the 7.5 K interval done at Toyota dealerships, running crap min-spec bulk dealership oil?

When my Prius was about half a year old, I had already gone through the 2 free oil changes at the dealership. Switched to Mobil 1, ran it 10,000 km, changed it and had it sampled. Had *alarming* levels of sodium, sulfur, and nitration

Presented this to the dealership and Toyota Canada. TC came back with a snotty letter stating my use of Mobil 1 was to blame, hinting my warranty might be voided. I contacted Mobil and they stepped up to bat for me

We chased a lot of dead ends. The next oil change, results were *better* not worse. Matter of fact, 2 oil changes of Mobil 1 later, lab results were still getting *better*

The Mobil engineer assigned to my case then suggested I try to obtain a sample of the oil used previously. Duh, I should have thought of that. Dealership had no problem with this, I guess they assumed all motor oil was exactly the same, especialy the bulk stuff sitting in the tote bin outside with TC's approval

That stuff was s***, I wouldn't run it in a 20 year old lawnmower: contaminated with free moisture and dust, high sodium, high sulfur, high iron, etc. A 3,000 mile interval was probably pushing it with that garbage

The tote bin should have had a desiccant breather, instead just an inverted pipe with a screen. That explained the dirt and moisture, the rest was just crap no-name low-bid-of-the-month oil

In the meantime, TC was still acting pretty smart, suggesting my engine was toast and it was *my* fault

So Mobil - armed with this damning evidence - contacted Toyota Canada. Very quickly, they STFU.

So if I had had a problem with my Prius motor, probably barely off warranty, TC would have laughed at me for using a non-recommended viscosity and interval. When the garbage sitting in the dealership tote bin was probably to blame

[Mike H]

RomaBoy previously said:

Warranty question, what if on the outside chance something goes wrong with your motor and you didn't follow Toyota's recommended oil change intervals of 5K or 6 months? Toyota will wiggle out of a warranty claim if they can.

Well any dealer can try and do anything they want but the fact of the matter is that extended service intervals do not void warranties. A warranty remains in force for a period designated by time or mileage, period. If a warranty claim is made during that period, a member of the dealership service staff or a representative of the manufacturer will examine the affected part and make a determination as to the cause of malfunction or failure. If the malfunction or failure cannot be directly attributed to the practice of extended oil drain intervals, then the practice of extending drain intervals cannot be found responsible for the warranty claim and has no bearing on the claim. To date, the use of Amsoil products in extended service intervals as recommended by Amsoil has NEVER been found to be the causative factor in a warranty claim. Listen, extended service intervals is the very core of Amsoil's business model. Yes, Amsoil synthetic molecules are uniform, have a higher viscosity index, have thermal and oxidative stability, and have higher cold temperature fluidity. But the goal for Amsoil since it began in 1972 was to provide a product that could go for extended service intervals yet at the same time reducing engine wear. Now that being said, I am only talking about Amsoil products, I don't have any direct knowledge of any other manufacturers of synthetic oil which is why I never criticize another brand or get in a my oil is better than your oil argument.

[kokopelli]

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. The dealer/factory can very well deny a claim on the failure of an engine component if they chose, for any reason and not following maintenance guidelines is an easy out for them. Whether they do or not is something else, but they certainly can. In fact, they can claim anything they want and it'll be up to the owner to prove otherwise.

I'm not for or against Amsoil, but I believe the goal was to market an "Amway like" product using the "Amway like" pyramid marketing strategy. I don't see it at any local auto shop, wonder why?? JMHO.. Ron

Mike H previously said:

Well any dealer can try and do anything they want but the fact of the matter is that extended service intervals do not void warranties. A warranty remains in force for a period designated by time or mileage, period. If a warranty claim is made during that period, a member of the dealership service staff or a representative of the manufacturer will examine the affected part and make a determination as to the cause of malfunction or failure. If the malfunction or failure cannot be directly attributed to the practice of extended oil drain intervals, then the practice of extending drain intervals cannot be found responsible for the warranty claim and has no bearing on the claim. To date, the use of Amsoil products in extended service intervals as recommended by Amsoil has NEVER been found to be the causative factor in a warranty claim. Listen, extended service intervals is the very core of Amsoil's business model. Yes, Amsoil synthetic molecules are uniform, have a higher viscosity index, have thermal and oxidative stability, and have higher cold temperature fluidity. But the goal for Amsoil since it began in 1972 was to provide a product that could go for extended service intervals yet at the same time reducing engine wear. Now that being said, I am only talking about Amsoil products, I don't have any direct knowledge of any other manufacturers of synthetic oil which is why I never criticize another brand or get in a my oil is better than your oil argument.

[Mike H]

I'm not for or against Amsoil, but I believe the goal was to market an "Amway like" product using the "Amway like" pyramid marketing strategy. I don't see it at any local auto shop, wonder why?? JMHO.. Ron[/quote]

No my friend, you are wrong. Amsoil is sold in retail tire stores, performance shops, and automotive parts and supply stores throughout the country. Less than a half a mile from me a Goodyear tire store sells Amsoil. How do I know you ask, because he has a huge Amsoil banner hanging in the window. But you are right as far as their marketing strategy being similar to Amway's. Well I say it is but I am not really up on what Amway even sells, but I will go with you and say it is. Except, you really don't make any money selling the product to friends or relatives because most people that buy it keep it in their vehicle for the extended interval period. So if your good old neighbor, Charlie, down the street buys six quarts of oil in a one year period you are hardly going to get rich. Also, the individuals that come to me to purchase Amsoil are usually people that change their own oil and frankly what percentage of people overall fall into that category? Small, real small. The real money that is made is selling to businesses and to companies that have large fleet operations that require large amounts of oil and related products for their maintenance operations.

Well, I am not going to continue to be a defender of Amsoil, Amsoil does not need to be defended. The only thing I will say though that if you choose not to use Amsoil then by all means use a synthetic from another manufacturer. Any synthetic is better than regular dino oil. Enough, I'm done on this topic.

[Brock]

...because they do not allow anyone to sell it unless they are a dealer. They do however have Commercial Accounts for use in products that are shipped as oem lubricants......off the shelf accounts for retail.....lube dealer accounts where they can use it in a Jiffy Lube or other like business and sell as part of their service...etc, etc......yep will never see it stocked in the big chains....but have seen small shops that keep it on hand...both motorcycle and car shops. they set up an account that lets them sell it in their shops to customers.

not here to debate how they sell the product...only whether one product is better than another and if our ridiculously short change intervals are necessary or the byproduct of tradition and marketing to increase profits.

To me it is like expiration dates on foods.....yeah it might say 1 May...but we all know you can go until 10 May without it being sour. So why throw away a gallon of good milk just because they told you it was not any good after their date? Now if you wait until 20 May and get sick...it is your fault.

I believe most restrictions are made short enough or long enough.....to more than compensate for the idiots out there that tend to find themselves in the Darwin Awards each year.