FJ= best expedition vehicle?

[tibaal89]

I had a feeling you would respond like that, Shadow - the bulk of your post makes the assertion that I don't know what I'm talking about or that my idea of travel is driving to the mall (what a sad irony). I only stated my opinion, but I see that your thoughts are Bible.

An expedition vehicle to me is some kind of intersection of an economy car, an RV, and a tank. You take the strengths of these three things and combine it into one vehicle. Of course you want it to be light and fuel efficient, of course you want it to be comfortable and rich in features, and of course you want it to be armored. Unfortunately these things are somewhat contradictory and compromises have to be made.

What I see (again, just my opinion) is a lot of people taking the 'tank' thing a bit too far and armoring their vehicles comically in excess of what they'll ever be doing. I think many would be better served keeping it lighter and more economical. Also, I see a lot of people not giving the stock-ish FJ it's due credit. It will take a beating that is absolutely incredible (and quite a bit of fun from the driver's seat ).

But these are just my feelings - good Lord man, get off your horse. If you and I disagree, I think both of us and the community are better served by spelling out arguments, providing and exchanging information... not going off on patronizing rants.

[Shadow-Warrior]

tibaal89 previously said:

I had a feeling you would respond like that, Shadow - the bulk of your post makes the assertion that I don't know what I'm talking about or that my idea of travel is driving to the mall (what a sad irony). I only stated my opinion, but I see that your thoughts are Bible.

I did not make any assertions about you and my thoughts are not bible, but it is a little confusing to new members when they read posts about information that is not necessarily true.

tibaal89 previously said:

An expedition vehicle to me is some kind of intersection of an economy car, an RV, and a tank. You take the strengths of these three things and combine it into one vehicle. Of course you want it to be light and fuel efficient, of course you want it to be comfortable and rich in features, and of course you want it to be armored. Unfortunately these things are somewhat contradictory and compromises have to be made..

I agree, but the compromises again don't mean in armor. I want to make sure we are still talking about Expeditions, if your talking road trips, you don't need it.

tibaal89 previously said:

What I see (again, just my opinion) is a lot of people taking the 'tank' thing a bit too far and armoring their vehicles comically in excess of what they'll ever be doing. I think many would be better served keeping it lighter and more economical. Also, I see a lot of people not giving the stock-ish FJ it's due credit. It will take a beating that is absolutely incredible (and quite a bit of fun from the driver's seat )..

I agree again, the stock FJ is truly amazing what it can do. I can't speak for other members and what their intentions are on what they plan on doing with their vehicles, I can speak for myself and say. Mine is being built for very long extended Expeditions out of the country.

tibaal89 previously said:

But these are just my feelings - good Lord man, get off your horse. If you and I disagree, I think both of us and the community are better served by spelling out arguments, providing and exchanging information... not going off on patronizing rants.

I didn't want to come off like that at all, I'm not on a high horse, I agree here too, that’s why a good conversation back and forth is healthy.

It doesn't mean I don't like you, I think your a great member, we just tend to look at this a little differently which is ok.

[frankv64]

Shadow-Warrior previously said:

Sorry, but I had to respond to this one post in particular, stating that an Expedition vehicle is not by adding more weight and that you need to get by with less weight. They also stated that adding more and more weight then having to install extra fuel etc to the vehicle is not the way to go. Sorry, but your WRONG!

This IS the way an Expedition vehicle IS setup, if your talking about doing “ROAD” trips that’s something else, then I would tend to agree that by adding armor, extra fuel tanks etc, is over kill. I think some members need to understand the correct definitions of what an Expedition vehicle truly is. This is NOT taking highways and road ways that are well traveled, that is called a trek, not an Expedition. An Expedition is going to remote areas that may have very limited access by a vehicle, making bridges just to get across in some areas, traveling in rocky areas, very remote locations from civilization.

Expedition vehicles are built with no bigger than a 3.5” suspension lift to keep the COG as low as possible. They are heavily armored to be able to take on a varied diverse terrain. Then also carry an extended range fuel tanks plus carry extra fuel containers too. If you have ever seen a Camel Trophy Expedition these vehicles are setup this way. If you have ever saw an Artic Expedition, vehicles are set up this way too. Take a look at vehicle Expeditions in Africa, they are setup this way also. An Expedition vehicle is capable to take on a wide range of terrains to explore very unique areas that most vehicles can’t and won’t travel through.

There are many different types of vehicle setups for specified terrain. On this forum you can see, Rock Crawlers with SAS systems, you can see Mudders that run 6” lifts, you can see Pre-Runners that are very much weight conscious because they are running fast over desert terrain. Then you have those that want extended road trips vehicles, they basically can run a stock vehicle which works just fine. Expedition vehicles are basically a combination off all vehicles except the SAS.

Those that build an Expedition vehicle due so to be able to cover a wide range of terrain and be able to come back home in one piece. Armor is your best friend, it’s the last line of defense before breakage, there are draw backs to armor, it increases the vehicles weight. But again, it depends on what you want to do.

So, with that being said, lets make sure we are all on the same page when were talking about “Extended Road” trips Vs an “Expedition” built vehicle, BIG difference.

Very well said..

[tibaal89]

I suppose that is much of the confusion here. The original poster uses 'expedition' in the title of the thread, but goes on to describe a road trip. For the road trip, yes a 100% stock FJ will be excellent.

I will elaborate my feelings on the armor later, I am at work!

[SaMingTRD]

Expedition- 1a journey or voyage undertaken for a specific purpose, usually exploration or research.2the group of persons or vehicles engaged in such an activity.

I think armor, flue economy and comfort are all important things, one not more important then the next...but if you dont have any of these then it's not a expedition vehicle.

running out of fuel in the middle of death valley, not being able to ford a river that i need to cross because i dont have a snorkel, getting stuck in mud after it rained all last night because i dont have a 3" lift or a winch, having to call my trip short because i didnt have an armored front bumper when i hit a deer. - all of these scenarios sink into my head and I would rather be over prepared then not prepared at all.

[uphill]

My ideal expedition vehicle would be an H-1 with a diesel.

I can't afford that and have an FJ which is outfitted for rough travel/expedition use. I'm one of those guys that armored the bottom, but when you look at the dents in the armored plate, it's been worth it. My concept of rough travel/expedition takes in a broad swath of uses. I do like to see that road less traveled (as Robert Frost said, it "makes all the difference") and for that I have the winch and armor. I pay the economy price on the highway since my MPG dropped about 4/MPG from where it was stock. I love the FJ - a lot. But is it the best expedition vehicle? As with everything, it's a compromise and a good one.

--FJTank Owner

[Archy Chris]

It is in my opinion! I have used my FJ on two expedition projects (archaeological work) last year and it preformed great. I'm planning two more expedition projects later this year and I would not do it without my FJ. chris

[uphill]

Heavily Armored FJC

I know I'm splitting the baby, but both Mikes (tibaal89 and Shadow-Warrior) have their points. The battle will rage on between the minimalists and the heavy's. My build up can be considered "heavy" and I feel justified in doing what I've done. Shadow-Warrior's FJ is built much the same way as mine is but mine isn't nearly as "pretty" as the TRD edition.

There is another school of thought and tibaal89, TCAO and others believe that light weight is the way to go. No the armor coverage isn't as complete and the bumper will not deflect a deer the way my ARB will, however they do cite on-road handling and less wear on wear-critical components as part of their argument. I can't disagree. They are right - but so are the heavy FJC's.

It's not like Liliput where we need to go to war over which end we open our eggs on. The design philosophy is simply personal. For example: Do you need a snorkel? No. Does it offer some advantages, Yes. Is it worth the money? It depends on the style of driving you do - pure and simple.

[VoodooBob]

I think it also begs to question how someone defines the word "Expedition." Mike (Shadow) definitely wants to head off to some far-off country and start a mini-revolution on his own. That being said--I ain't gonna get in his way! On the back side, I remember growing up and going on long road trips in the family station wagon (One of them big ol' Pontiacs with the wood grain down the sides) from Idaho to Texas. To me, that was a freakin' EXPEDITION!

My ideas for my FJ are to equip it for Expedition. Yeah, I'll probably end up in a year/year & half to look more like Mike's Shadow Warrior than a stock FJ, but my bride will probably keep me state-side. My only hope is when I go to land some of those "Mountain Browns," that they will just jump out of the mountain lakes and into my creel!

The best part is I really do believe the FJ is the best bang for the buck. I can load my 3 kids in, even pile in the wife, and throw a ton of gear in the back and on the roof. The mall, however, does not qualify for an "expedition"....no matter what your wife says or how much room she is taking on your credit limit of your charge cards....

[tibaal89]

Well said, Larry. Incidentally TCAO's FJ probably my favorite of the people who claim expedition as a motivation for their build.

I should note that right now I have NO armor... which is certainly not my plan for the long run!! When it comes time to beef the bottom, I will do it with a larger number of smaller sheets, cut to cover the parts that matter. I will not have a football field of steel hanging a few inches below the frame - the armor will be selectively placed and as high as possible. I'm still developing the details, but I think I can managed equivalent protection with drastically less metal and at a much better clearance... of course it won't have a flat belly to slide on, but it will slide just fine across it's mulitply angled belly.