Creating a national monument around Moab.

[Michigander [OP]]

1/2mill90 previously said:

Michigander, what kind of work and what part of WY were you looking in?

^ I am a 3rd year Mechanical Engineering student. I have been looking for a summer internship outwest for awhile now. I currently work in aviation but I am always looking for other options as now is my time to try new things. I don't really have any place in particular in mind, just would like to move outwest at least for a summer.

[willinno]

Perhaps the more positive step is to have one or more of the 4X4 associations lobby on behalf of responsible motorized access. And I think most everyone on the Forum is responsible. The designation process is still in its formative stage, so this is the time to act. A national monument designation may well save these areas for multi-purpose offroad use, which may be lost without such a designation.

I have to compare the "national monument" designation with a national monument just down the road from the Canyonlands area. I'm speaking of Grand Staircase/Escalante National Monument in southern Utah. I spent a week four wheeling and camping all around GSE. There was no area in the monument where I was forbidden from entering (save one road which had a huge sink hole where vehicles were getting stuck). GSE was a multi-use area. There was a great deal of cattle grazing. Being responsible, if I passed thru an open gate, I left it open. If I had to open a gate to continue my journey, I closed the gate after I passed. I did encounter a couple of cattlemen, but then didn't bat an eye at my presence. Admittedly, I cannot recall encountering even one biker or backpacker, but their existence would not have effected my access to the GSE one iota. Government personnel actually seemed pretty happy to have someone interested in using the area. However, I do recognize that GSE is going to be much less active than Canyonlands with its proximity to Moab.

So, rather than getting too fired up about what we assume the monument designation will do to our access to the area, a more fruitful approach may be to get involved in the process to assure 4X4 access.

I'd love to start some discourse on this subject. That shouldn't be too hard.

[FJess]

willinno previously said:

Perhaps the more positive step is to have one or more of the 4X4 associations lobby on behalf of responsible motorized access. And I think most everyone on the Forum is responsible. The designation process is still in its formative stage, so this is the time to act. A national monument designation may well save these areas for multi-purpose offroad use, which may be lost without such a designation.

So, rather than getting too fired up about what we assume the monument designation will do to our access to the area, a more fruitful approach may be to get involved in the process to assure 4X4 access.

I'd love to start some discourse on this subject. That shouldn't be too hard.

There are folks working on this, but were blindsided by this letter sent to the president. Here's an update I just got from Blue Ribbon Coalition:

I also want to make sure you take the time to read our update on the
latest push for a massive national monument. For those of you who
missed it, the Outdoor Industry Association (OIA, a coalition of
outdoor retailers) recently sent a letter to President Obama asking
him to designate a massive (1.4 million acres!) new national monument.
Sadly, it is in one of the most popular OHV areas in southeastern
Utah.

Our members in Utah feel betrayed. Many OHV advocates are currently
participating in state and local talks about how this epic recreation
area should be managed. The retailer's request pulls the rug out from
under that local effort. Brian Hawthorne, BRC's Public Lands Policy
Director, said it best: "OIA's petition for a National Monument
designation from a second-term president is the least democratic and
inclusive way to make a land-use change."

Plus, these outdoor retailers tell President Obama that the area is
"endangered" by "exploding off-road vehicle use that is damaging
riparian areas, cultural sites, soils and solitude." This is
absolutely not true, and we show why it isn't in our update. I can't
help but be outraged by this sort of vilification of the OHV
community. As I travel across the country on my Turn the Tide Tour
(We Are BRC - Turn The Tide Tour 2012
), I'm continually impressed with the volunteer efforts our OHV clubs
are doing. This is especially the case in this part of Utah, where OHV
clubs across the region are working with federal land managers
specifically to ensure sound management practices are in place to
protect the land and resources.

Please read this important update at:

Important Follow-Up On Massive National Monument Pushed In Utah! | BlueRibbon Coalition
<http://www.sharetrails.org/alerts/2012/11/20/important-followup-on-massive-national-monument-pushed-in-utah%20>

There are reasonable people who have been working with the appropriate entities. Unfortunately, the Outdoor Industry Association doesn't seem to be one of the reasonable ones. I wonder how many of the member companies shown as signatories to that letter know what is going on?

[Smalldog]

The retailers only come visit Moab for photo shoots and during the SIA and other conventions. They're all desk jockey posers! Leave Moab as-is!


Sent from my iPhone using AutoGuide.com App

[willinno]

The Outdoor Industry Association needs to hear from us then. The fact is, with our 4X4's, we are very active in the outdoors and buy outdoor products at a higher rate than most of the population I would think. For instance, I have at least 3 sleeping bags (looking for another), 4 tents, 2 backpacks, pads, water purification equipment, Camelbacks, camp stoves, gadgets, gizmos, on and on. I bet all of you are pretty well stocked too.

The OIA seems to be approaching this as an "either/or" situation. What needs to be made manifest to the OIA is that this is a "both/all" situation. We four wheelers are a large market for OIA products. Less access to available sites to recreate, less need for OIA products.

[Smalldog]

willinno previously said:

The Outdoor Industry Association needs to hear from us then. The fact is, with our 4X4's, we are very active in the outdoors and buy outdoor products at a higher rate than most of the population I would think. For instance, I have at least 3 sleeping bags (looking for another), 4 tents, 2 backpacks, pads, water purification equipment, Camelbacks, camp stoves, gadgets, gizmos, on and on. I bet all of you are pretty well stocked too.

The OIA seems to be approaching this as an "either/or" situation. What needs to be made manifest to the OIA is that this is a "both/all" situation. We four wheelers are a large market for OIA products. Less access to available sites to recreate, less need for OIA products.

True that!


Sent from my iPhone using AutoGuide.com App

[BIGGUY]

Michigander previously said:

^ I am a 3rd year Mechanical Engineering student. I have been looking for a summer internship outwest for awhile now. I currently work in aviation but I am always looking for other options as now is my time to try new things. I don't really have any place in particular in mind, just would like to move outwest at least for a summer.

I was curious as some of the Trona mines like OCI and TaTa (sp?) along with the mines and the power plant I worked at hire here. They do hire interns sometimes too. Mid America/Pacificorp/Rocky Mountain Power is the company I worked for.

[BIGGUY]

willinno previously said:

The Outdoor Industry Association needs to hear from us then. The fact is, with our 4X4's, we are very active in the outdoors and buy outdoor products at a higher rate than most of the population I would think. For instance, I have at least 3 sleeping bags (looking for another), 4 tents, 2 backpacks, pads, water purification equipment, Camelbacks, camp stoves, gadgets, gizmos, on and on. I bet all of you are pretty well stocked too.

The OIA seems to be approaching this as an "either/or" situation. What needs to be made manifest to the OIA is that this is a "both/all" situation. We four wheelers are a large market for OIA products. Less access to available sites to recreate, less need for OIA products.

If you look at the post I made way up towards the beginning I mentioned what some of the people say about it that live, work, and own business in Moab. The ones who hike and bike don't spend much overall. The off road crowd spends a lot overall. The group I was with when going down there stayed in everything from a tent up to a custom Prevost motor home. One time there about 15 of them lined up in a row and several in small motor homes or campers. Some also stay in cabins at the campground or motels. A lot of them eat meals at restaurants as groups at least a few times during the 2-3 week stay. Gas and/or diesel is purchased. Parts, t-shirts, and other things around town along with groceries for meals at camp.

Some of the other groups not only don't spend much money there as they remote camp and bring their own food, but they also sneak into the private campgrounds to "steal" showers and wash dishes and stuff. They won't even pay the $5-$10 fee that some camps ask. They will sneak in. The camp owners where we stayed caught quite a few of them over the years I was going down there a lot. Not only were they there for the showers/water, but they even took TP a couple of times. Sad.

[BIGGUY]

A guy going by jonharis has posted on Mud and Expo. He is asking for gas donations and will head down to the area in the letter and take photos of the trails, roads, reclaimed areas, etc. to show what impact stuff is having on this area. This will be to show what the area looks like and what has or hasn't been impacted.

[willinno]

1/2mill90 previously said:

A guy going by jonharis has posted on Mud and Expo. He is asking for gas donations and will head down to the area in the letter and take photos of the trails, roads, reclaimed areas, etc. to show what impact stuff is having on this area. This will be to show what the area looks like and what has or hasn't been impacted.

That seems like a clever way to get a paid trip to Moab! I'll bet quite a few folks on here would go for that arrangement.

Oh, and I bought that other sleeping bag I was looking for. Big Agnes double wide, with a double wide pad which fits inside a pocket on the bottom of the bag. Big Agnes makes good products I find (I have a tent). As I was saying, the four wheel crowd spends money on outdoor gear. Money talks; BS walks.