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Old 05-06-2007, 06:45 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Ask the Bellydoc

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HammerHead previously said: View Post
Since you are the "Belly Doc" here is one for ya.

Gastric Bypass or LapBand
If you look at the data, both of these procedures are good for about 50 to 70% of excess body weight loss. However, the bellshaped distribution of results overlap and the Roux-en-Y Gastric Bypass (RGB) is slightly favored from that standpoint. This, however, is HIGHLY surgeon dependent. It turns out that different surgeons have different results with these operations and not all of it is due to surgical expertise. There are a variety of system related factors that play into it.

The LapBand requires absolutely NO gastrointestinal anastomoses (places where you sew the bowel together to direct flow). The KEY danger of any morbid obesity operation is leakage from an anastomosis. The mortality of anastomotic leak can be as high as 50%. The reason that it's so dangerous (and so much MORE dangerous than the same type of complication in a thinner person) is that one of the consequences of having spillage into the belly is often that the patient will require at least a day or two in the ICU on a ventilator after the emergency clean up operation. A morbidly obese person on a ventilator is a timebomb of further complications waiting to happen. Also, it can be very difficult to detect the presence of a leak before it starts to create havoc.

Any obesity operation is more successful in the best selected and best prepared patients. This is where the "system factors" play in. Surgery for morbid obesity is only a small component of a larger care plan that includes a tremendous amount of support from non-surgical care providers who assist the patient in a massive lifestyle change - both before the operation and afterward. People who are not going to tolerate the change well, even though they may really really want to try - need to be properly identified so that they can be properly counselled. This is why you could look at a statistical plot of weight loss for an individual surgeon who does a lot of these operations and get a completely WRONG idea of their comparative surgical skill. The measure of weight loss as an outcome tests the whole system that the surgeon is part of.

I don't do these operations, although I have some experience with them from my training. My hospital system isn't tooled up to do these, my patient population is probably not rich in people who could participate at the level necessary to benefit, and if I were to try to set some system in place that would be able to support a weight loss practice, I'd have to feed it a constant stream of patients in order for it to maintain its skill level.

Basically, for this operation, a surgeon is either IN or they're OUT. If they're IN, they better be IN 100%. There is little or no room for a part time bariatric surgeon. A surgeon who wishes to participate in bariatric surgery should probably be doing this operation more than once a week. After they are established, they should probably be doing over 100 per year. It needs to be the main thing that they do.

I have a very broad based minimally invasive surgical practice involving a variety of complex laparoscopic surgical procedures. I'm heavily involved in surgical education, teaching residents the basics of surgery, and in particular the basics of laparoscopic technique. I wouldn't be able to offer as much training for my residents if I narrowed my practice to bariatrics.

As you can tell, I've thought a lot about this! This is for good reason. Bariatric surgery WORKS. Obesity is a massive public health problem (pun intended) and surgery is the ONLY weight loss method with durable statistical results. It ameliorates a huge number of related medical issues. It quite simply saves lives. There is a lot to be said for offering this operation. I just can't justify doing it if I'm going to offer a shabby version of it because I don't do it enough or I don't do it within a sufficiently supportive system.

...bet you didn't want that much...

Bottom line RGB vs. LB:

I would offer the LB because it's safer. I'd make up the slight difference in weight loss statistics by doing it within an amazingly well conceived system of diet and excercise counselling along with support groups and social networking, to help keep people on track after surgery.
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Old 05-06-2007, 07:53 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Ask the Bellydoc

Where do babies come from?

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Old 05-06-2007, 08:09 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Ask the Bellydoc

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HammerHead previously said: View Post
Since you are the "Belly Doc" here is one for ya.

Gastric Bypass or LapBand
And with that question we all know he never met the doc.....or he likes to read...luv ya doc!!!
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Old 05-06-2007, 08:16 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Ask the Bellydoc

all you got to see is a few roux-en-y gone to hell and you're all for lap band.

but in either case those people are so damn fat, any surgery is risky as hell.

bah.

i feel like those procedures are like pissing on a wildfire in an attempt to quell it.
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Old 05-06-2007, 08:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Ask the Bellydoc

Doc...this is not a joke....just watch this thread for the next few weeks...people are about to pass some serious knowledge back and forth...this is to become my new favorite....I am a sponge (not spongebob..I know you are fond of he and his crew) for knowledge!!!
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Old 05-06-2007, 09:09 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Ask the Bellydoc

So, I come across this guy laying on the ground, next to what probably was a jeep at one time.

There's a bone protruding from his left upper arm with a red inflamed area surrounding it. His respiration is 32 and shallow. I can hear crackling and wheezing. His pulse is 132, and his BP comes out at 90/60.

He was unresponsive, unable to follow commands, and just kinda moaned.

I rubbed some dirt on his wound and told him to suck it up. Then I drove off. Was this the right thing to do? He was a jeep owner, after all.
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Old 05-06-2007, 09:26 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Ask the Bellydoc

as a former ICU RN & now a Recovery Room RN I will vote for Lap anytime.
In my ICU time I never took care of a lapband gone wrong...I am sure it happens...howevery I took care of some nasty bypasses that went septic, vented, ended up trached & pegged or gone to be with Jesus.
Nope I gotta go with Doc here lapband and lap for many surgeries if the Dr is good.
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Old 05-06-2007, 09:54 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Ask the Bellydoc

Quote:
Aslan previously said: View Post
So, I come across this guy laying on the ground, next to what probably was a jeep at one time.

There's a bone protruding from his left upper arm with a red inflamed area surrounding it. His respiration is 32 and shallow. I can hear crackling and wheezing. His pulse is 132, and his BP comes out at 90/60.

He was unresponsive, unable to follow commands, and just kinda moaned.

I rubbed some dirt on his wound and told him to suck it up. Then I drove off. Was this the right thing to do? He was a jeep owner, after all.
Several jeep parts are useable on your FJ... you may have missed an opportunity.
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Old 05-06-2007, 09:57 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Ask the Bellydoc

Quote:
homedadr previously said: View Post
Doc...this is not a joke....just watch this thread for the next few weeks...people are about to pass some serious knowledge back and forth...this is to become my new favorite....I am a sponge (not spongebob..I know you are fond of he and his crew) for knowledge!!!
Yeah... I guess some folks might ask me something that I'll take seriously. I certainly will type exactly what I think, and pretty much as fast as I think it, so we've got that going for us...

Nevertheless, why do I feel like the one guy in the lineup that DIDN'T take a giant backward step when the call went out for "volunteers" ??
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Old 05-06-2007, 10:07 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Ask the Bellydoc

Quote:
1leglance previously said: View Post
as a former ICU RN & now a Recovery Room RN I will vote for Lap anytime.
In my ICU time I never took care of a lapband gone wrong...I am sure it happens...howevery I took care of some nasty bypasses that went septic, vented, ended up trached & pegged or gone to be with Jesus.
Nope I gotta go with Doc here lapband and lap for many surgeries if the Dr is good.
enjoy
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If you ever want the real scoop on who is or isn't a decent technical surgeon ... ask the recovery room nurse. You can't hide complications from these people! If a surgeon has a high rate of "take-backs" ... they know. If a surgeon frequently re-operates on people... they know. If their cases go long and their patients come out stressed... THEY KNOW (plus they have to fix it - so they're probably pissed off).

Recovery room nurses aren't bamboozled by smiles, chit-chat or tailored suits. They don't see the decor in the front office and they never see the busty blonde receptionist (unless there's more going on than I already know - which is possible).

Recovery room nurses will report about a surgeon strictly based on the way that their patients do in the immediate post op period. This is pretty darn good data about a large variety of procedures!

My 2 cents... for free. Advice, like everything else, is at best worth what you pay for it.
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