Unions: Good, Bad, why? - Toyota FJ Cruiser Forum
Off-Topic Discussion This area is for discussion of off-topic related items.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
#1 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 03:54 AM
Cajun Moderator
 
Layonnn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Baton Rouge
Posts: 16,805
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Lifetime Supporting Member
(Thread Starter)
Unions: Good, Bad, why?

First off, i don't know anything about Unions or the UAW. But, i want to learn.

Media makes them out to be the bad guy.

Why are they good and why are they bad?


(i would like this to be informative and not become a heated argument, or so help me, i will report my own thread, hahah)

2001 UZJ-100 Land Cruiser - 35" MTRs, ARBs fr/rr, 4.88s, ARB front, BIOR rear & skids, Radflo 2.5s, OME springs, 1" BL, WKOR rails, DT headers
1997 FZJ-80 Locked - Sold
2007 Supercharged FJ Cruiser - Sold
-Layton
TLCA# 20623
Layonnn is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 04:11 AM
Forum Veteran
 
Relic hunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 448
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Lifetime Supporting Member
Re: Unions:Good, Bad, why?

Unions had their place many years ago when laws didn’t protect the worker from ruthless employers. Today there are many laws that protect workers. There is/are EEO, FMLA, EEOC, OSHA, and many other protections for employees. I don’t believe unions are good for today’s economy. My .02 cents worth.



A slip of the foot you may soon recover, but a slip of the tongue you may never get over.


Benjamin Franklin 1706-1790

Last edited by Relic hunter; 12-11-2008 at 04:26 AM.
Relic hunter is offline  
#3 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 04:45 AM
Forum Master
 
sealevel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Belleair, Florida
Posts: 1,079
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to sealevel
Re: Unions:Good, Bad, why?

Worker representation is good. Just like governments if they get too powerful they suck. Notice the banks got a free ride (no unions) car companies and any company with unions will get nothing or a loan. They should just use chapter 11.

'07 Titanium auto 4x4, rear locker, ATRAC, upgrade pk 2, Pioneer AVIC-D3 nav system w/ipod Vd, 265/70 17 Pirelli Scorpion ATR, Trail-Gear sliders, black Ellis Precision Grab Handles, black RazorWings, AFE Cat-back exhaust & CAI, PIAA Fogs, Iron Mountain shift knobs, tinted windows, AeroFlow headlight protectors, cargo net, Midld 75-822 CB, Bandi Mount, 4' Firestik, Manik Black Taillight Guards & a Gracie Barra Brazilian Jiu Jitsu sticker.
sealevel is offline  
#4 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 06:32 AM
Forum Veteran
 
Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Altus, OK
Posts: 707
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Lifetime Supporting Member
Re: Unions:Good, Bad, why?

Quote:
Relic hunter previously said: View Post
Unions had their place many years ago when laws didn’t protect the worker from ruthless employers. Today there are many laws that protect workers. There is/are EEO, FMLA, EEOC, OSHA, and many other protections for employees. I don’t believe unions are good for today’s economy. My .02 cents worth.
Precisely.

Unions today are just as greedy and self-serving as the corporations they are supposed to "protect" the employees from. In reality, the only interest a union has is that of its own survival. A close second would be featherbedding the company with inept and incompetent workers long past their expiration date.

Howls,
Wolf

Wind in your fur and muzzle to the moon...
Listening to: http://www.khowl.fm
Wolf is offline  
#5 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 06:52 AM
Forum Superstar
 
NCFJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chesnee,SC
Posts: 6,169
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Re: Unions:Good, Bad, why?

I agree with Relic and Wolf. Unions have outlived their day. They do not promote competition or encourage individuals to achieve any more than the guy standing next to them on the line. While claiming to support the workers many unions provide fantastic salaries and perks for those that run the union.

I have no problem with a person making good money, but when a person with barely a HS diploma installs seats in f-150s all day and makes $35-40 cash plus benefits an hour to do it, it is not hard to understand why our auto makers are in trouble. I have family in MI that work in the auto industry and although they do love the money they are well aware that they are a huge part of the problem.

"The next best thing to playing and winning, is playing and losing"
Religion is for those who are afraid of going to Hell
Spirituality is for those who have been there.
NCFJ is offline  
#6 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 06:55 AM
Forum Regular
 
blindside's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 222
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Re: Unions:Good, Bad, why?

Quote:
NCFJ previously said: View Post
I agree with Relic and Wolf. Unions have outlived their day. They do not promote competition or encourage individuals to achieve any more than the guy standing next to them on the line. While claiming to support the workers many unions provide fantastic salaries and perks for those that run the union.

I have no problem with a person making good money, but when a person with barely a HS diploma installs seats in f-150s all day and makes $35-40 cash plus benefits an hour to do it, it is not hard to understand why our auto makers are in trouble. I have family in MI that work in the auto industry and although they do love the money they are well aware that they are a huge part of the problem.

well said X's 2.

Stickers to make it go fast, side outriggers, spike-producing tires, Flux Capacitor, missiles, lasers, signal-intercepting smart radio, head-up display and rocket propulsion, Granite Counter tops.

Also can self-destruct when primed, .... (basically the works)!

:: Go Gators!
blindside is offline  
#7 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 07:06 AM
Formerly FJ_Marine
 
Gunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: NAS JRB Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 6,419
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Garage
Re: Unions:Good, Bad, why?

We complain about Unions, yet we elect those who's pockets are lined with Union dollars...............

Thats all I'm gonna say about that and Unions.

Dave
1984 FJ60

[O]=TOYOTA=[O]

^^^ CLICK TO SEE MY 1984 FJ60 PROJECT ^^^
Gunny is offline  
#8 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 08:52 AM
Forum Superstar
 
MrBigAxe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South Texas Coast
Posts: 4,109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Re: Unions:Good, Bad, why?

My father just retired as a union electrician, so I've seen how it works in that industry in this area (Corpus Christi, TX). There are many jobs (refineries) here that will rarely use non-union electrical contractors because of the quality of work is generally terrible if they do. For one thing, an electrician here can still easily be fired for incompetence, even if they are union. So I guess my experience is with a somewhat weak union.

I have no training as an electrician, but I could walk in to one of the non-union shops and tell them I am an electrician, but have no experience. They would likely hire me because I could blow their little math test out of the water. I know some real idiots that have done it after they got fired as general laborers on construction sites. If I wanted to get in as a union electrician, it would be off to apprenticeship school for a few of years.

I'm not saying that union workers make better workers. I'm just saying that union electricians in this area are more likely to be able to do something an electrician should be able to do. Also, I'm not saying that the union in this area is some great thing, I'm just saying the alternative is really lacking.

So, the electrical union in this area has a real purpose. But it's hard to get good help here and workers are often imported from out of state for big jobs. I imagine our situation is not the norm.

On to the UAW. I feel the UAW is counterproductive at best.
MrBigAxe is offline  
#9 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 08:57 AM
Cajun Moderator
 
Layonnn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Baton Rouge
Posts: 16,805
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Lifetime Supporting Member
(Thread Starter)
Re: Unions:Good, Bad, why?

Quote:
FJ_Marine previously said: View Post
We complain about Unions, yet we elect those who's pockets are lined with Union dollars...............

Thats all I'm gonna say about that and Unions.
OH SNAP, political post, UH OHHH.

j/k.

Good stuff guys. Sounds like they definitely need to go as a part of this bailout. Get rid of them, make car for less money.

2001 UZJ-100 Land Cruiser - 35" MTRs, ARBs fr/rr, 4.88s, ARB front, BIOR rear & skids, Radflo 2.5s, OME springs, 1" BL, WKOR rails, DT headers
1997 FZJ-80 Locked - Sold
2007 Supercharged FJ Cruiser - Sold
-Layton
TLCA# 20623
Layonnn is offline  
#10 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 09:13 AM
Forum Regular
 
pa-juggalo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via Yahoo to pa-juggalo
Re: Unions:Good, Bad, why?

Speaking first hand I've got 6 1/2 years in as a teamster. Honestly the union is a dinosaur. It once served a purpose, now I really don't think it does, it's become more of a collection agency, that's in the companies pocket. At our place we have a guy who's been fired 12 times since I've been there, including physical contact with a supervisor, going after a female DHL driver, and walking out on a pee test(federal), and yet he remains, everytime he's fired and sometimes it's for mmonths, he get's his job back with pay. Here's another ineffiecent way, say a driver comes in with a set of trailers, he can park them on the inbound pad, that's it, unless he's a city driver like me, then I can unhook my tractor from the lead trailer, I'm not allowed to touch anything else. Then a jockey would unhook the dolly and other trailer, then yet another jockey would then put the away. Where as one person could do this and the co could save big $. Probably the greatest thing we have going for us is we have a pension(add $3-4/hr), and free insurance including family, if we work 3 days a week min. Now our company is "alledgedly" in a bind and they want concessions(give backs) 10% on hourly salary wich is $2.27 under the national frieght agreement, plus no cost of living and 10% off scheduled raises for the remainder of the contract, for that we're ofered 15% in company stock, around 10,000 shares I think. Also the nonunion people would take a 10% hit as well, the whole way to the top of the company.

2007 Black Cherry 6spd 4x4, FE, RB, CQ, UR, Z2,

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2405415/1
http://www.bigdogsoffroad.com/
pa-juggalo is offline  
Reply

  Toyota FJ Cruiser Forum > Off-Topic Area > Off-Topic Discussion

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Toyota FJ Cruiser Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome