Unions: Good, Bad, why?

***Layonnn*** · 12-11-2008, 03:54 AM

First off, i don't know anything about Unions or the UAW. But, i want to learn.

Media makes them out to be the bad guy.

Why are they good and why are they bad?

(i would like this to be informative and not become a heated argument, or so help me, i will report my own thread, hahah)

**Relic hunter** · 12-11-2008, 04:11 AM

Unions had their place many years ago when laws didn’t protect the worker from ruthless employers. Today there are many laws that protect workers. There is/are EEO, FMLA, EEOC, OSHA, and many other protections for employees. I don’t believe unions are good for today’s economy. My .02 cents worth.

sealevel · 12-11-2008, 04:45 AM

Worker representation is good. Just like governments if they get too powerful they suck. Notice the banks got a free ride (no unions) car companies and any company with unions will get nothing or a loan. They should just use chapter 11.

**Wolf** · 12-11-2008, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Relic hunter previously said:

Unions had their place many years ago when laws didn’t protect the worker from ruthless employers. Today there are many laws that protect workers. There is/are EEO, FMLA, EEOC, OSHA, and many other protections for employees. I don’t believe unions are good for today’s economy. My .02 cents worth.

Precisely.

Unions today are just as greedy and self-serving as the corporations they are supposed to "protect" the employees from. In reality, the only interest a union has is that of its own survival. A close second would be featherbedding the company with inept and incompetent workers long past their expiration date.

Howls,
Wolf

**NCFJ** · 12-11-2008, 06:52 AM

I agree with Relic and Wolf. Unions have outlived their day. They do not promote competition or encourage individuals to achieve any more than the guy standing next to them on the line. While claiming to support the workers many unions provide fantastic salaries and perks for those that run the union.

I have no problem with a person making good money, but when a person with barely a HS diploma installs seats in f-150s all day and makes $35-40 cash plus benefits an hour to do it, it is not hard to understand why our auto makers are in trouble. I have family in MI that work in the auto industry and although they do love the money they are well aware that they are a huge part of the problem.

blindside · 12-11-2008, 06:55 AM

Quote:

NCFJ previously said:

I agree with Relic and Wolf. Unions have outlived their day. They do not promote competition or encourage individuals to achieve any more than the guy standing next to them on the line. While claiming to support the workers many unions provide fantastic salaries and perks for those that run the union.

I have no problem with a person making good money, but when a person with barely a HS diploma installs seats in f-150s all day and makes $35-40 cash plus benefits an hour to do it, it is not hard to understand why our auto makers are in trouble. I have family in MI that work in the auto industry and although they do love the money they are well aware that they are a huge part of the problem.

well said X's 2.

Gunny · 12-11-2008, 07:06 AM

We complain about Unions, yet we elect those who's pockets are lined with Union dollars...............

Thats all I'm gonna say about that and Unions.

MrBigAxe · 12-11-2008, 08:52 AM

My father just retired as a union electrician, so I've seen how it works in that industry in this area (Corpus Christi, TX). There are many jobs (refineries) here that will rarely use non-union electrical contractors because of the quality of work is generally terrible if they do. For one thing, an electrician here can still easily be fired for incompetence, even if they are union. So I guess my experience is with a somewhat weak union.

I have no training as an electrician, but I could walk in to one of the non-union shops and tell them I am an electrician, but have no experience. They would likely hire me because I could blow their little math test out of the water. I know some real idiots that have done it after they got fired as general laborers on construction sites. If I wanted to get in as a union electrician, it would be off to apprenticeship school for a few of years.

I'm not saying that union workers make better workers. I'm just saying that union electricians in this area are more likely to be able to do something an electrician should be able to do. Also, I'm not saying that the union in this area is some great thing, I'm just saying the alternative is really lacking.

So, the electrical union in this area has a real purpose. But it's hard to get good help here and workers are often imported from out of state for big jobs. I imagine our situation is not the norm.

On to the UAW. I feel the UAW is counterproductive at best.

***Layonnn*** · 12-11-2008, 08:57 AM

Quote:

FJ_Marine previously said:

We complain about Unions, yet we elect those who's pockets are lined with Union dollars...............

Thats all I'm gonna say about that and Unions.

OH SNAP, political post, UH OHHH.

j/k.

Good stuff guys. Sounds like they definitely need to go as a part of this bailout. Get rid of them, make car for less money.

pa-juggalo · 12-11-2008, 09:13 AM

Speaking first hand I've got 6 1/2 years in as a teamster. Honestly the union is a dinosaur. It once served a purpose, now I really don't think it does, it's become more of a collection agency, that's in the companies pocket. At our place we have a guy who's been fired 12 times since I've been there, including physical contact with a supervisor, going after a female DHL driver, and walking out on a pee test(federal), and yet he remains, everytime he's fired and sometimes it's for mmonths, he get's his job back with pay. Here's another ineffiecent way, say a driver comes in with a set of trailers, he can park them on the inbound pad, that's it, unless he's a city driver like me, then I can unhook my tractor from the lead trailer, I'm not allowed to touch anything else. Then a jockey would unhook the dolly and other trailer, then yet another jockey would then put the away. Where as one person could do this and the co could save big $. Probably the greatest thing we have going for us is we have a pension(add $3-4/hr), and free insurance including family, if we work 3 days a week min. Now our company is "alledgedly" in a bind and they want concessions(give backs) 10% on hourly salary wich is $2.27 under the national frieght agreement, plus no cost of living and 10% off scheduled raises for the remainder of the contract, for that we're ofered 15% in company stock, around 10,000 shares I think. Also the nonunion people would take a 10% hit as well, the whole way to the top of the company.