Is this the most capable stock 4x4 ever built? - Toyota FJ Cruiser Forum
Interested in the new Toyota Tundra? Stop in at the Toyota Tundra Forum @ www.tundratalk.net!
Toyota FJ Cruiser Header Background Toyota FJ Cruiser Header Right
HomeForumGalleryClassifiedsAbout UsAdvertiseContact Us

» Auto Insurance
» Featured Product
Advertisement
Wheel & Tire Center

Go Back   Toyota FJ Cruiser Forum > Off-Topic Area > Other vehicle discussion
Register Home Forum Active Topics Photo Gallery Chat Insurance Auto Loans Garage Blogs Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Auto Escrow

Other vehicle discussion Non-FJC talk...

FJCruiserForums.com is the premier Toyota FJ Cruiser Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-20-2007, 05:37 AM   #1 (permalink)
Forum Master
 
kiskat23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Member Number: 7127
Location: Valley O' the HOT HOT Sun, AZ
Posts: 1,283
Is this the most capable stock 4x4 ever built?

I ran into this guy in Clearwater the other day. Super nice guy that we talked to at a couple lights (my rig was a lil dirty and I think he could tell I off roaded). He told me about his rig and what he has put it through before and after its restoration. Any body know how it stacks up to the Unimog, H1, or dare I say Jeep, Landrover or FJ? It looks like the only thing that can stop it is a RPG to me.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Oh yeah its a 69 Pinzgauer (I had to ask too so don't feel dumb). Austrian rig made for many different military and government for all kinds of uses. This one spent its life as a Swiss Army mountain patrol vehicle (great work if you can get it). K
kiskat23 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-20-2007, 05:46 AM   #2 (permalink)
Forum Superstar
 
wesayso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Member Number: 5111
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 4,341
Send a message via Yahoo to wesayso
Re: Is this the most capable stock 4x4 ever built?

Kinda cool looking. What kind of crawl ratio does it have? What about HP? Is it a diesel?
__________________
Grok FJ

"I swear to god, it's like I live in a trailer of common sense, and stare out the window at a tornado of stupidity."

"They sicken of the calm who know the storm"
The Wesayso air dam
'77 FJ40
'89 4Runner
'90 4Runner
'89 4Runner #2
'97 Landcruiser 40th Anniversary Limited Edition
wesayso is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-20-2007, 05:55 AM   #3 (permalink)
Forum Master
 
kiskat23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Member Number: 7127
Location: Valley O' the HOT HOT Sun, AZ
Posts: 1,283
Re: Is this the most capable stock 4x4 ever built?

I think he said it was an air cooled 4 banger with like 80 horses but, I don't really know about the crawl ratio. He said he had been up 45 degree inclines without sweating. The thing that really got me were the approach angles and ground clearance. K
kiskat23 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-20-2007, 06:07 AM   #4 (permalink)
Forum Superstar
 
Woodsman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Member Number: 3643
Location: Batesville, Indiana (Casket City, USA)
Posts: 8,355
Lifetime Supporting Member
Re: Is this the most capable stock 4x4 ever built?

Portal hubs = massive ground clearance

If you search you will find internet sites where you can buy these old Swiss Army vehicles. Prices aren't bad if you have money to burn, and time.
Woodsman is online now  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-20-2007, 06:49 AM   #5 (permalink)
Forum Veteran
 
JadeMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Member Number: 5081
Location: Florham Park, NJ
Posts: 563
Re: Is this the most capable stock 4x4 ever built?

Pinzes are really cool rigs. They come in lots of different configurations as well.

Pinzgauer High Mobility All-Terrain Vehicle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pinzgauer vehicles for sale - 712M 710M 710K Swiss Army Military Surplus Vehicles.
Swiss Army Vehicles - The Prime Pinzgauer and Unimog Source

I know they're great off-roaders, but is it wrong that all I can think of is how awesome of a tailgating vehicle that would be?

-Jade
__________________
11' Toyota FJ Cruiser NSSE: Demello Offroad Stage 3 Hybrid Kickout Sliders, Gobi Stealth Roof Rack, Midland 75 CB, SCUBA Mod

01' Saab 9-5, 87' Buick Grand National, 69' Ford Mustang Fastback, 49' Chrysler New Yorker
JadeMonkey is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-20-2007, 06:56 AM   #6 (permalink)
Forum Superstar
 
Sean K.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Member Number: 9441
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 5,139
Re: Is this the most capable stock 4x4 ever built?

No. It's not. The Unimog is the most capable offroad truck every built. Not even the Rubicon can really compare (though it's as close as a mainstream vehicle has ever come).

That is a Pinzgauer. It's Swiss made ***ETA: it may be Austrian as you said***. It's IFS f/r portals with factory lockers and a great low range crawl ratio...somewhere over 100:1, probably closer to 200:1. However....it has ZERO flex. It also is very narrow.....bad combo. Is it very capable in stock form? Ya. Is it the "best" ever built. Resounding "NO".

I once had a guy and his buddy that both owned one come into the 4wd shop I was working at and I went out and looked at it b/c it was the first time I'd seen one. It was pretty cool to look at, but had major design problems for the trails around here. The gas tank was right under the rocker panel as were the driveshafts leaving them completely exposed and vulnerable.

They were bragging up a storm about how it was the most capable rig ever built and that it would go "anywhere". I just smiled and asked them to join us on a trail run to Highway to Hell that weekend. Long story short, they got to the first obstacle and said, "There's no way we're gonna go in there!".

I'd still like to wheel with them again, just to see more.....but just getting them to the first obstacle was an exercise in patience to begin with....and most of that was just rutted dirt roads with off cambers, some rocks and steep hill climb/descents.

Here's a pic of the first obstacle:




As for how they compare to a Mog....Mogs have gearing options that go all the way down to 2000:1 (not a typo....two thousand). Mogs use solid axles and have amazing flex and while they appear really tall (especially on factory 40" tires) they have a VERY low center of gravity and are extremely stable on offcambers. There are a lot more configurations of Mog than Pinz. They both can be had in diesel or gas engines.

As for comparing them to Jeeps/Rovers/Etc. ......they don't really compare. They are quite a bit different than a "normal" 4wd.
Sean

Last edited by Sean K.; 07-20-2007 at 07:02 AM.
Sean K. is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-20-2007, 07:03 AM   #7 (permalink)
Pacific Coast Moderator
 
uphill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Member Number: 10461
Location: Southern California
Posts: 6,068
Blog Entries: 1
Lifetime Supporting Member
Re: Is this the most capable stock 4x4 ever built?

I think it might just be the most capable stock 4x4 ever built. The Pinz is a true 4x4, Swiss Army vehicle that has no particular comfort issues. For a larger guy like me (6') there is a roll bar that will brain you if you're not capable.

To make them "user friendly" you need to plan on spending about 3x what you would on FJ mods. Parts are available but they're expensive. Most of the Pinzgauers you see have 45,000 miles + on them because that's when the Swiss Army sends them out to surplus. The transmission seals leak and tranny rebuilds are a must. If you can be your own mechanic and if you LIVE near where you trail, it's tough to beat a Pinz. If you're going to travel (say from New York to Colorado), the Pinz will have blown a transmission and you'll be beat to bloody sushi because it's not designed to travel over about 50 mph and the ride is what you'd expect of an extremely capable stock 4x4.

The tandem axel Pinz, modified to "user friendly" status is a machine to behold!

The German Unimog is a very impressive 4x4 as well, but the passenger space (on military version) allows for the foot space needed for a 10 year old child and no more.

Edit: We're talking completely stock here and yes, a Mog to me is a toss up with a Pinz.
A Modified Pinz or Mog can be a real rock breaker but there are cost trade-offs and there are other mods that are "area specific" to particular terrains that are almost always better (usually lighter). This is a MILITARY vehicle and like a military H-1 for example, there are things they were not designed to do. For example a highly modified Rubicon is a lot narrower than an H-1 and there are places it will go that a modified H-1 would not "fit".
__________________
There is nothing like returning to a place that remains unaltered, to find the ways that you have changed.



Last edited by uphill; 07-20-2007 at 07:08 AM.
uphill is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-20-2007, 07:27 AM   #8 (permalink)
Forum Master
 
kiskat23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Member Number: 7127
Location: Valley O' the HOT HOT Sun, AZ
Posts: 1,283
Re: Is this the most capable stock 4x4 ever built?

Quote:
Sean K. previously said: View Post
No. It's not. The Unimog is the most capable offroad truck every built. Not even the Rubicon can really compare (though it's as close as a mainstream vehicle has ever come).

That is a Pinzgauer. It's Swiss made ***ETA: it may be Austrian as you said***. It's IFS f/r portals with factory lockers and a great low range crawl ratio...somewhere over 100:1, probably closer to 200:1. However....it has ZERO flex. It also is very narrow.....bad combo. Is it very capable in stock form? Ya. Is it the "best" ever built. Resounding "NO".

I once had a guy and his buddy that both owned one come into the 4wd shop I was working at and I went out and looked at it b/c it was the first time I'd seen one. It was pretty cool to look at, but had major design problems for the trails around here. The gas tank was right under the rocker panel as were the driveshafts leaving them completely exposed and vulnerable.

They were bragging up a storm about how it was the most capable rig ever built and that it would go "anywhere". I just smiled and asked them to join us on a trail run to Highway to Hell that weekend. Long story short, they got to the first obstacle and said, "There's no way we're gonna go in there!".

I'd still like to wheel with them again, just to see more.....but just getting them to the first obstacle was an exercise in patience to begin with....and most of that was just rutted dirt roads with off cambers, some rocks and steep hill climb/descents.

Here's a pic of the first obstacle:




As for how they compare to a Mog....Mogs have gearing options that go all the way down to 2000:1 (not a typo....two thousand). Mogs use solid axles and have amazing flex and while they appear really tall (especially on factory 40" tires) they have a VERY low center of gravity and are extremely stable on offcambers. There are a lot more configurations of Mog than Pinz. They both can be had in diesel or gas engines.

As for comparing them to Jeeps/Rovers/Etc. ......they don't really compare. They are quite a bit different than a "normal" 4wd.
Sean
Being of Austrian descent (no; not throw another shrimp on the barbie) I shared it with my dad (came over a long time back from Vienna) who confirmed that it was made in Graz (Austria) and thought it was extremely cool that there was one tooling around the area.

You might try being a tad bit less condesending on this friendly forum (we are not experts mostly just folks that share a simple common bond of owning a cool capable vehicle). Your post comes off a bit harsh (I was just asking an opinion). As for your picture I would hazard a guess that not too many cruisers on this forum would ever even consider doing more than spectating what the buggies (specialty built barely road worthy rigs) are attempting to accomplish !
kiskat23 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-20-2007, 07:28 AM   #9 (permalink)
Forum Superstar
 
Sean K.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Member Number: 9441
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 5,139
Re: Is this the most capable stock 4x4 ever built?

Quote:
uphill previously said: View Post
I think it might just be the most capable stock 4x4 ever built. The Pinz is a true 4x4, Swiss Army vehicle that has no particular comfort issues.For a larger guy like me (6') there is a roll bar that will brain you if you're not capable.

To make them "user friendly" you need to plan on spending about 3x what you would on FJ mods. Parts are available but they're expensive. Most of the Pinzgauers you see have 45,000 miles + on them because that's when the Swiss Army sends them out to surplus. The transmission seals leak and tranny rebuilds are a must. If you can be your own mechanic and if you LIVE near where you trail, it's tough to beat a Pinz. If you're going to travel (say from New York to Colorado), the Pinz will have blown a transmission and you'll be beat to bloody sushi because it's not designed to travel over about 50 mph and the ride is what you'd expect of an extremely capable stock 4x4.

The tandem axel Pinz, modified to "user friendly" status is a machine to behold!

The German Unimog is a very impressive 4x4 as well, but the passenger space (on military version) allows for the foot space needed for a 10 year old child and no more.

Edit: We're talking completely stock here and yes, a Mog to me is a toss up with a Pinz.
A Modified Pinz or Mog can be a real rock breaker but there are cost trade-offs and there are other mods that are "area specific" to particular terrains that are almost always better (usually lighter). This is a MILITARY vehicle and like a military H-1 for example, there are things they were not designed to do. For example a highly modified Rubicon is a lot narrower than an H-1 and there are places it will go that a modified H-1 would not "fit".


All you basically said was Pinz's are uncomfortable, they leak, have bad transmissions, are expensive and hard to find parts for and have a top speed of 50 mph (all of which I agree with). You never extolled the virtues that might make this "the most capable stock 4x4 ever built".

It boils down to this....they have really low gears, lockers, and decent ground clearance. It's a successful formula for decent offroading, but the lack of flex and in appropriately placed components really hurt it. It's neither good at slow speed crawling where articulation is key, nor is it good at high speed pre-running (even with it's IFS/IRS) for obvious reasons.

JMO,
Sean
Sean K. is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-20-2007, 07:43 AM   #10 (permalink)
Forum Superstar
 
Sean K.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Member Number: 9441
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 5,139
Re: Is this the most capable stock 4x4 ever built?

Quote:
kiskat23 previously said: View Post
Being of Austrian descent (no; not throw another shrimp on the barbie) I shared it with my dad (came over a long time back from Vienna) who confirmed that it was made in Graz (Austria) and thought it was extremely cool that there was one tooling around the area.

You might try being a tad bit less condesending on this friendly forum (we are not experts mostly just folks that share a simple common bond of owning a cool capable vehicle). Your post comes off a bit harsh (I was just asking an opinion). As for your picture I would hazard a guess that not too many cruisers on this forum would ever even consider doing more than spectating what the buggies (specialty built barely road worthy rigs) are attempting to accomplish !
My comment was in no way condescending. Get ready....here comes condescending. Frankly, I'm sick of holding people's hands around here. I'm done with that. If you don't like it....guess what? I don't care. I'm done explaining myself. Constantly being questioned is getting old and tired. I don't make **** up to sound like I know what I'm talking about.

As for your obviously ignorant comments (and before you cry like a *****, look up the definition of "ignorant").....that trail is run by guys like my buddy Eben in his Jeep Yj with only a spring over w/ shackle reversal, 33's, a 4:1 in the stock tcase with a belly up skid plate, and lockrights f/r on the stock D30 and D35 axles. We ran it in 1.5 hours, no damage whatsoever....I was in my Toyota truck at the time.

I had other pics of the trail with lesser built vehicles I (and btw, the black rig in the pic is a JEEP as is the white one on the bypass...both of which made it just fine...though the black one is admittedly heavily modified), but I chose to post this one b/c it showed how deep that hole can get.

As for your ethnicity....who gives a flying ___________(fill in expletive of your choice)? Zippity-do-dah! You're part Austrian. Good for you.

This site is comical. I give you first hand off road experience with the very subject of your question, and you complain.

I guess I stick around for the entertainment as much as anything else.

Sean
Sean K. is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Toyota FJ Cruiser Forum > Off-Topic Area > Other vehicle discussion

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Toyota FJ Cruiser Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:49 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.