Engine Bay Body Rips

[MudLovingFJ]

it isnt their fault. they thought the different panels would be readily and easily available, but they ended up being the opposite.

no worries, i will ge the truck back on tues or wed and then it will go back in whenever the panels come in. its better than me driving the stoopid minivan rental for weeks

[Shark]

I can't wait to see the design of the new panels. If they look like the late 07 models that should tell us a lot.

And then it begs the question "why were there new design panels in the first place".

[cruizin4bruzin]

Just to let you all know that I have a stock FJ and I'm getting a bulge on the same spot. I don't do any type of jumping but I do go off-roading, I have informed the dealership where I bought my FJ from and told them about the rip and the adviser said when that happens bring it in and they will fix it cause thats a big issue.

FJ is 4 months old.

[bernd]

cruizin4bruzin previously said:

Just to let you all know that I have a stock FJ and I'm getting a bulge on the same spot. I don't do any type of jumping but I do go off-roading, I have informed the dealership where I bought my FJ from and told them about the rip and the adviser said when that happens bring it in and they will fix it cause thats a big issue.

FJ is 4 months old.

What is the build date of your FJ?

[Shadow-Warrior]

Briareos previously said:

All,

I hate to be a killjoy, but I am not so optimistic at this point. I don't currently have any problems, but I wanted to obtain answers to the following questions "just in case":

1. If my truck exhibits this cracking after 36000 miles will it be covered? The cracking seems to be an inherent defect.
2. If I take my FJ off-road and I have cracking, will Toyota stand behind this "flagship" off-road vehicle and repair crack damages?
3. What modifications to the vehicle could cause problems with warranty work on any possible cracking?

I presented these questions to my local dealership, along with a description of the problem others are having, and links to this site. My local dealer checked with his chain of command, and said I had to call Toyota National at 800-331-4331. I relayed the same concerns to them, along with the same three questions. In summary, here is the response I received:

1. It sounds like Toyota is guaranteed to perform repairs outside the warranty period only if they issue a recall (not TSB).
2. If I choose to off-road the vehicle while in the warranty period to intentionally surface any defects, I am gambling that the repairs will not be covered since I took the vehicle off-road, and it becomes the regional Technical Specialists decision on a case-by-case basis.3. Third, Toyota can use the existence of any modification to deny service.
Overall, I am not happy in the least. If I had known this going in, I would have purchased a Jeep. They stand behind their off-road products. I didn't purchase my FJ because of its heritage. I purchased it for its supposed performance, which means the windshield, rattling doors, and poor visibility were compromises I willingly made to get said performance. Now it seems the so-called off-road performance is taboo if I expect to have toyota stand firmly behind their product. (I expect toyota will stand behind a few, but it will be "out of their good graces," which I don't trust). Right now, it feels like my FJ is a time-bomb, and cannot be used for what it was marketed to do, and my only hope is that this inherent cracking defect surfaces in my own vehicle while I am still under warranty.

The person I spoke with at Toyota National did go back to check her chain-of-command and aknowledged that Toyota was investigating the problem, and their initial position is that it is likely caused by aftermarket equipment.

Can you say "scapegoat"

I did open a case number just so toyota would be aware of customer concerns over this issue.

Thanks,
Shawn

First off, they gave you some very bad information. The Toyota FJ Cruiser was built FOR off-road. All their literature shows this and how the vehicle was promoted for sale to the public. Which is very easy to show that who ever it was you were talking too, does not know what they are talking about. As far as any after market items that you put on the vehicle, it also a falsehood. As Cruiser Larry points out “The Magnuson-Moss Act of 1973”. You can also find dealers installing aftermarket bumpers lifts, which by the way the Toyota Trail Team vehicles also have lift kits aftermarket bumpers and promote offroading to the public. All in all a lot of bad information you received.

cruiserlarry previously said:

Before any one else panics, I would like to comment that the responses you received from toyota are in conflict with the discussions some of us have had directly with their field inspectors, and may also may not be legaly accurate.
The Magnuson-Moss Act of 1973 specifically prevents an auto dealership or manufacturer from denying warranty coverage just because aftermarket parts are on a vehicle - they are required to demonstrate a causal relationship - and this may prove to be difficult, given even the results of the small sampling of FJCs in the forum poll. It is also very likely that, given the changes to the 08s and late 07s, they have been aware of the problem long before any of us will have used up our warranties, and will need to accomodate this situation to prevent a formal recall or legal action - both substantially more expensive alternatives for Toyota.

Agreed

[Briareos]

Shadow/Larry,

I wholeheartedly agree with both your points. I don't feel the information I was given by toyota was "bad", it is their standard position. I just find it very disapointing that Toyota National cannot give us reasonable guidance specific to the FJ, which as you point out, is marketed as an off-roader. I am about halfway through my warranty period, so I am concerned about getting this inherent defect fixed. As someone else said, I wish mine showed cracks now, so I can establish it occurred in the warranty period.

NOTE - the following is just my personal take on how things COULD go...

I can't help thinking that the first half dozen cases will be fixed for free, regardless of the circumstances. It is the cheapest way for toyota to take ownership of the damaged parts to conduct a failure analysis. Of course after the failure analysis will come the proposed solution, which will try to strike a balance between cost, performing the repair at the lowest level, and customer satisfaction. If the final solution is indeed to replace the inner fenders, it appears the cost will be rather high, and will require extensive labor. This does not bode well, and I expect toyota will attempt to control costs by limiting repairs to within the warranty period by doing this as a TSB.

I also bought a first model year tacoma, and I was fortunate to get my rear leaf spring packs replaced under TSB. I was right at the end of my warranty period on this, and had I gone over, it would not have been covered. You would think cracking leaf springs would be a recall situation for the tacoma, but it was a TSB. I don't expect cracking sheetmetal on the FJ will warrant a recall either, as I don't see any additional liability for Toyota if they don't fix it.

Unfortunately, it all comes down to money to some degree. This repair will probably be expensive, and so I don't expect it will be handed out freely, but just enough to avoid bad PR. Some service writers are going to take a position that you off-roaded it, so you are out of luck. Others are going to say "no Problem". Toyota's current official position is that this is handled on a case-by-case basis at the discretion of the individual evaluating the vehicle.

I just don't trust some individual's discretion, for example, my dealership thinks off roading = rock crawling. They need to be educated that off-roading is a very broad term which can cover a range of events from mudding, to trail riding, to exploring, to fire roads, to rock crawling. They automatically assume rock crawling, which puts me at a disadvantage going in if I need to defend the use of the vehicle.

Sorry for the long post,
Shawn

[LandCruiserSteve]

Briareos previously said:

I can't help thinking that the first half dozen cases will be fixed for free, regardless of the circumstances. It is the cheapest way for toyota to take ownership of the damaged parts to conduct a failure analysis. If the final solution is indeed to replace the inner fenders, it appears the cost will be rather high, and will require extensive labor. This does not bode well, and I expect toyota will attempt to control costs by limiting repairs to within the warranty period by doing this as a TSB.

Shawn, I do agree with you that Toyota (or any company) would obviously want to keep costs low as possible. However, if it's determined that it's their responsibilty for the fix, how could they possibly limit free fixes to only the first half dozen or so?? For that matter, how could they exclude fixes on yet-to-be affected vehicles that are beyond the warranty period . . . . especially if this is an inherent design flaw that can possibly reveal itself after only 100 miles, or even well beyond 100,000 miles?

Briareos previously said:

This repair will probably be expensive, and so I don't expect it will be handed out freely, but just enough to avoid bad PR.

If it isn't "handed out freely" to every single FJ that is affected by this and deserves to be fixed, now that would be a PR nightmare for Toyota.

Briareos previously said:

Some service writers are going to take a position that you off-roaded it, so you are out of luck. Others are going to say "no Problem". Toyota's current official position is that this is handled on a case-by-case basis at the discretion of the individual evaluating the vehicle.

First of all, as far as I know, Toyota hasn't yet stated its current official position on this. If they had, we'd know exactly what the outcome would be by now. That's precisely why Toyota is intently performing a detailed investigation on this, even as we speak.

Second, once an official position is taken, the determination of whether or not a fix will occur, will hardly be in the hands of a local dealership's service writer.

[Willpower]

I have an early build FJ, stock except for BFG All Terrains and rock rails.

I have no bulges/cracks, but check often now. It scares me some that I paid 30k for a truck that may have a major issue. I am confident Toyota will take care of it sufficiently so as to make the truck sound and customers happy.

I do not agree with those who discount this as a minor issue, "not a safety issue", or one that will only be fixed under certain circumstances. Here's why and here's my take.

Correct me if I'm wrong guys, but it seems plain to me after reading and studying the pics that the problem rests in the crumple zones of the front structure. In that one area, it seems that there is "crumple" and breakage/failure of the metal prematurely and not from frontal impact. We don't know the cause yet, obviously, but we do know that some trucks are experiencing this failure.

How can this possibly NOT be a safety issue? If the crumple zones are already crumpling in one area on one or both sides of the truck, does this not mean that there would be less intact structure there to absorb impact in the event of a frontal collision? If so, this is a potential MAJOR liability for Toyota Motor co., and I suspect they will respond appropriately. Wrongful death lawsuits related to this issue would be a PR and financial nightmare, and one I'm sure Toyota would try to avoid.

I suspect if this problem proves a design flaw and widespread, we may see a quick and unprecedented "fix". That is my hope anyway.

[bernd]

LandCruiserSteve previously said:

That's precisely why Toyota is intently performing a detailed investigation on this, even as we speak.

This is true. Toyota is sending engineers from Torrance to look at my vehical. If they were not taking the investigation seriously they would not have sent field reps to the dealers to look at our rigs. I'm glad that the engineers are flying up to look at mine. Hopefully what they find will help them come up with a solution. It's going to take time for Toyota to come up with a plan, but I for one am quite happy with Toyotas responce. I don't care if they take my vehical apart, just as long as they can find a solution. I don't want to see this vehicale discontinued. We need to give Toyota a chance to figure this out.

[w5wi]

bernd previously said:

... I don't want to see this vehicale discontinued. We need to give Toyota a chance to figure this out.

x2 for sure!!! I want a FJ with a diesel!

On another note, I've been giving lots of thought (no flames please...even us old guys can sometimes think...) to the warranty or no warranty because of after market add-ons. My thoughts were in part provoked by discussions herein, but my real rumination came after rereading the Toyota FJ ads in the latest magazines. Yep, they show an FJ decked out with lots of aftermarket trappings and brag, yes, I said BRAG, on it's off road prowness! Then on the bottom of the ad it states that the addition of aftermarket parts may void the warranty... Hmmm, do we see a disconnect here?

A quick check with a very good lawyer friend of mine said that this was a "slam dunk" for a lawsuit with the vehicle owner almost always prevailing. The collective wisdom being that any company that blatantly uses advertising with aftermarket add-ons to promote the vehicles prowness is asking for trouble if they don't support the vehicle being used in the manner they are advertising.

I'm quite confident that Toyota is well aware of this, even if a few uninformed dealers are not.

Again, my appreciation and thanks go out to those of you actively working the problem.

Cheers,

dale