It's time to face it. Before I get flamed for being a noobie poster, I've been lurking here for many months. Before I get flamed for being a whiner, I'm not whining, I'm disappointed. Before I get flamed for being too emotional about a vehicle, let me say that 30K for a vehicle gets me the privelege of being more than just emotional because 30K is a lot of money to most of us. But to those of us who bought a Cruiser from our local dealer because it's a Toyota, because it's built like a tank, because it won't get stuck in the snow, because it will last "forever", because it will tow a trailer, because it's comfortable and fun to drive, because it's unique, because it's an all-around great utilitarian/daily driver vehicle, and becasue it's Toyoat (did I say that already) are screwed. We all got bit by Caveat Emptor which is Latin for "don't buy one." I'm sick about it because body rips, busted windshields, busted diffs., and paint chips are not consistent with my idea of Toyota. Now don't go flaming me. When the local dealer looks at me like he's thinking, "Man, I hope the wife is making lazagna tonight." while I'm explaining these things, I get disappointment. Bad disappontment. I do not plan on hard crawling or offroading; more like just the occasional camping trip, picnic in the woods, and deep snow winter commuting etc. (no flames, please). Now, I'm thinking of unloading this disappoinment on some other poor guy and/or hoping the Toyota internet lurker reads this and Toyota BUYS BACK this disappointment or warrantees these obvious engineering defects for the life of the vehicle, transferable to the new owner. Think that will happen? If you do then you're in for bad disappointment yourself. I traded in my old reliable, trouble free, excellent Toyota Camry, went into debt for the first time in my life, bought it from the local dealer to be sure I got good after sale service and (evidently) took a huge gamble for this? I have had no problems so far with my 3/07 build date FJC. Do I expect them? Now I do. Just past 3 years, 36k down the road I do. Yep. It's time to face it.
I've been following this issue since is started. My FJ is only 7 weeks old and I've been watching the areas of concern as much as possible. I only have 1250 miles so far and no off road time yet (make that no free time period). The only upgrade is the swap to stock size BFG A/T's. 03/07 build date.
When I first looked at 750 miles everything looked normal. The only thing I noted was a small dimple on the top edge of the panel 1.5" in front of the last crumple crease, passenger side. I though it might be a defect in the panel or a place that simply got dinged before or during assembly. I just checked again yesterday and noted another dimple forming about 2" below and 1" back that on the flat. I'm pretty sure that wasn't there before.
It's too early to tell and I don't think it will photograph because these dimples are small. But I will keep a close eye on it. It should be interesting to see if this is how it starts.
Just heard from my service rep., he said that they have "bracing" that they want a body shop to install. He also said they would have to replace parts, so I am not sure what they will replace. I told him I wanted a certain body shop to do the work for me, he said that would be fine as long as the guy will work off of a PO. Part is expected in a few weeks, I will know more at that time. I suspect it is the same panel that everyone is getting, just hope it solves the problem. One more note on my passenger side the paint is chipping off, no bulge, no crack but they are replacing that side also. The only comfort in all of this is the fact that I know the shop I pick will put it back to original condition, again I just hope it's a "fix" not a "bandaid".
I understand the upset about the defect. But before you start whining about your 30k investment........realize you are sitting in your home, likely with your family, typing on a thousand plus dollar computer complaining. Most people in the world would literally kill to have your problem. I think discussion about the issue is very constructive. Whining does nothing. The only exception is if the whining to strangers on the internet is therapeutic to you, and keeps you from going "postal."
So far I have had nothing but good times with my FJ. No problems. I look forward to many more years of fun.
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I hump the wild to take it all in, there is no bag limit on happiness.
Ted Nugent
Shawn, I do agree with you that Toyota (or any company) would obviously want to keep costs low as possible. However, if it's determined that it's their responsibilty for the fix, how could they possibly limit free fixes to only the first half dozen or so?? For that matter, how could they exclude fixes on yet-to-be affected vehicles that are beyond the warranty period . . . . especially if this is an inherent design flaw that can possibly reveal itself after only 100 miles, or even well beyond 100,000 miles?
If it isn't "handed out freely" to every single FJ that is affected by this and deserves to be fixed, now that would be a PR nightmare for Toyota.
First of all, as far as I know, Toyota hasn't yet stated its current official position on this. If they had, we'd know exactly what the outcome would be by now. That's precisely why Toyota is intently performing a detailed investigation on this, even as we speak.
Second, once an official position is taken, the determination of whether or not a fix will occur, will hardly be in the hands of a local dealership's service writer.
Well, based on what Bernd was told, it seems like this will indeed be handled on a case-by-case basis, at the discretion of the person handling the case. This is the same thing I was told by Toyota National. It is their current position at this time.
Just like with the rear differential problems, I doubt that there will be sufficient information available in the public domain which will force toyota to take ownership of the problem. I doubt Toyota will release the results of any failure analysis (unless it points toward a scapegoat), just like (to best of my knowledge) no results have been released about the rear diffs (only rumors about incorrect heat treat on the first batch).
Toyota is now starting to deny coverage for some rear diffs. I expect the same will occur with these bulges/rips at some point. Warranty period will probably be a factor.
Hoping for best, but starting to expect the worst (would love to be proved wrong, but only time will tell).
Just heard from my service rep., he said that they have "bracing" that they want a body shop to install. He also said they would have to replace parts, so I am not sure what they will replace. I told him I wanted a certain body shop to do the work for me, he said that would be fine as long as the guy will work off of a PO. Part is expected in a few weeks, I will know more at that time. I suspect it is the same panel that everyone is getting, just hope it solves the problem. One more note on my passenger side the paint is chipping off, no bulge, no crack but they are replacing that side also. The only comfort in all of this is the fact that I know the shop I pick will put it back to original condition, again I just hope it's a "fix" not a "bandaid".
JAXTOY If possible will you try to capture some pictures of this "bracing?"
1st. it was not an investment; it was a purchase. 2nd. It is not whining; it's a statement of fact. 3rd. I do not need you to tell me what I should be thankful for; I know full well what to be thankful for and I am thankful for all of it. 4th. My statement of fact does accomplish more than preventing me from going postal; it may protect another potential buyer from the hassle of what we have been seeing here. 5th If you think you are going to have "many more years of fun" with a vehicle that is breaking in half, you will be disappointed. No FJC is more than 2 years old now. What do you think will happen "many more years" from now.
1st.You are right. I am disappointed and angry and all that. Nah, just kidding.
And if my investment/purchase breaks in half, I will have fun doing that too. Did not meant to upset you, just putting things in perspective, it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.
2nd. I have no 2nd.
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I hump the wild to take it all in, there is no bag limit on happiness.
Ted Nugent
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