OMG, Bear!! Unbelievable that they had to strip everything down that far, even the interior. Geez . . .
Now, are the replacement aprons the old ('06) style or the newer ('07+) style?? (I don't see the "dimples" on your replacement panels.)
Unless I missed what you said in a recent previous post, how much of your mods did you remove prior to turning it over to the shop??
EDIT: Are they going to let you monitor the re-installation of all your aftermarket mods (winch, bumper, etc.) to make sure they do it right??
The aprons are the'07 type( like that means anything) They're still going to fail. The pic is of the p/s crumple zones are spread apart. All mods still on rig at time of delivery. I will give it a good look over before I sign any papers.
Quote:
MarkBNJ previously said:
Holy crap! Why the hell did they have to yank the whole dash? Did they have to drop a bunch of wiring harnesses to get the aprons off? Or maybe they need to weld against the firewall back in the sides there.
The Body Shop had the Toyota shop pull the dash so that when the new apron was welded to the fire wall nothing was in contact with it.
Quote:
dbbd1 previously said:
Bernd,
Where are you having the work done at? The dealer and/or which?
David
Obrist & Cunningham is doing the repair. They are certified by Toyota and I was very impressed by the way things were turning out. The tack welds looked as if they came from the factory.
You also said..."Also, I understand the idea about how insignificant the sheetmetal is. But I don't think the NHTSA will see it that way.
Doesn't that contradict this..."The manner in which the crumple zone fails must have some direct relationship to the impact that is observed on you and the rest of the vehicle. If they were so insignificant Toyota would not have put them there."
I don't know....this is all so aggravating and confusing...
Sorry, what I meant was that I understand why people think the sheet metal is insignificant. I was then explaining that Toyota would not have designed it if it wasn't there for a reason.
Anyhow, enough banter.. we are wasting valuable space in this thread
Well, this confirms what I posted about what my associate from the body shop said - to do it right, you'll have to pull out the dash - and low and behold, they had to pull out the dash...This is MAJOR stuff after all, and it seems it will not fix the problem, based on responses from those with new aprons who have bulges already...
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" I'm not aware of too many things, but I know what I know, if you know what I mean..."
"Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... that way when you do criticize them, you're a mile away, and you have their shoes..."
To try and help gather more accurate data on the actual numbers of FJ Cruisers affected with this problem, I started another thread with a very simple poll - and I humbly request EVERY FJC OWNER resond to it AFTER inspecting their truck...I'm hoping to gather a much larger number of responses to "help" Toyota understand the breadth and urgency of this situation. So please check it out and respond to the poll....Thank you everyone for your assistance with this "quest"...
Larry
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" I'm not aware of too many things, but I know what I know, if you know what I mean..."
"Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... that way when you do criticize them, you're a mile away, and you have their shoes..."
This sucks.... they made it seem so rugged when I bought it. In fact that's why I got an FJ. I hope they figure it out soon. I wonder if there is any guarantee that this wont happen to the 08's. My 02/07 has not shown signs yet.
Aren't these mechanical engineers supposed to run simulations to catch this sort of thing before it happens? I wonder if there is some way to measure & record stress at the problem area in real time (during normal driving) to prove that it's exceeding some obvious threshold for that particular metal & structure. If that can be done we can prove that there is a design flaw with real data. Evidence...
This sucks.... they made it seem so rugged when I bought it. In fact that's why I got an FJ. I hope they figure it out soon. I wonder if there is any guarantee that this wont happen to the 08's. My 02/07 has not shown signs yet.
Aren't these mechanical engineers supposed to run simulations to catch this sort of thing before it happens? I wonder if there is some way to measure & record stress at the problem area in real time (during normal driving) to prove that it's exceeding some obvious threshold for that particular metal & structure. If that can be done we can prove that there is a design flaw with real data. Evidence...
I'm with ya Stomper. I'm really disappointed that a problem like this would show up in the FJ. I really don't think Toyota did their homework on this vehicle. Call me impatient but I just don't see a happy ending to this. The more evidence I see on this the more that it appears that it is an issue with frame rigidity and I just don't see a feasible way to correct that without serious modification/redesign and/or buyback. Furthermore I don't know how well Ill be taken care of because I bought my FJ used.
I'm going in this weekend to see what I can do about trading into a Tacoma. I've come to the realization that if I really want to use a vehicle for offroading I better get something that has been proven and is cheap to mod/maintain. I'm going to look for an 01-04 Taco as I know those things are bombproof. With the extra cash leftover Ill be able to build it just how I like. Long Travel and a Supercharger
Anyhow, about the issue at hand here are my feelings. A FEA simulation will only give you so much data, albeit typically very valuble and useable data it's only as accurate as the operator and his/her assumptions and constraints. Furthemore this failure appears to be fatigue related and fatigue is very much experimental. Typically it's approximated by known curves and/or formulas based on a number of cycles and *calculated* loads.
It's not uncommon in engineering to make assumptions based on other known data. My thought is that Toyota was aware of this issue with the Prado to some degree. But the money saved in using the Prado frame vs. a total redesign wasn't enough to start from scratch. In addition to this I believe they thought that the differences designed into the FJ would help to alleviate the tearing issue. It's pretty clear to me they had a bit of poor judgement on this and are going to end up paying pretty heavily for it. Wether it's via loss of reputation or monetary compensation.
My bulging drivers side fendered FJ is at the dealership right now...the service manager will be looking under it shortly. I brought in all the pictures from this thread and the other one on here a couple of weeks ago. When I was in a few days ago to schedule my 21,000 mile service, he came out and asked me how it was doing. (I'm surprised he even remembered) I guess he's actually concerned a bit about it. I'll put a call into him shortly to set up a time when I can meet with him and my FJ at the same time...maybe noon today? I'll keep you guys posted as to what happens. I'm sure it'll be similar to bernd's experience.
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It would be great if I had a clue, but let's face it, that's just not gonna happen.
Well I have to say this really sucks. I spent a lot of time researching trucks, comparing them and driving them. The FJ won at the end of the day, and I really fell in love with it. Even convinced the wifey we should buy one. I was in the process of getting online quotes from dealerships in my area.
And then I find this thread. What a disaster. I will no longer be purchasing an FJ because I don't believe this issue will be resolved. Doesn't sound like it is an easy fix, but rather a fundamental design flaw.
So much for Totota's reputation. Sorry my first post had to be a negative one.
Bernd
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