Honestly, if you get the crumple zones doing their thing, there's a much bigger piece of metal coming at you.
LOL, really funny comment! But I have to agree with Bernd. I've seen guide rails going through passenger compartments before. Looks ugly...
And I don't think that stiffening the whole thing is gonna help. The opposite is required: the full front should be able to flex more. Stiffening would just make it crack at the next weakest link, wherever this is gonna be...
What do lifts, wheel travel, aftermarket bumpers, and tears generally have in common? All are asociated with people who are inclined to offroad more and more agggessively than those who don't have lifts or steel bumpers. It is called correlation.
Your correlation may be accurate to a degree. But, what about all the agressive off-roaders with lifts, big tires and winch bumpers who aren't experiencing this problem? Not to mention the conservative FJ drivers who have experienced this problem, like myself?
I can't speak for everyone else with this dilemma, but I'm one of those mild-mannered types who avoids any possible carnage to my FJC like the plague. And as mentioned earlier, bernd is also the same type of driver in his FJC, in spite of his superior off-road technical skills.
Personally speaking, I have an FJ-40 that I use as my primary trail rig, and I'm not afraid to put it through its paces off-road (read: "abuse"). However, even though my FJC is tricked out with all of the above pieces of equipment as precautionary measures, I drive it as conservatively and mild as possible in off-road conditions. Primarily because it's my daily driver and that last thing I'd ever want to do is damage it, either intentionally or unintentionally.
Matter of fact, I selected the two easiest ("bunny slope") trail runs at Ouray . . . . just so my 5700 mile roundtrip to and from southeast Georgia wouldn't be marred any mechanical problems upon my return trek.
So, being properly equipped to handle any off-road problems if they should ever come along, doesn't necessarily mean that the driver is looking for trouble to happen. Some of the best-equipped rigs I saw at Ouray were driven by some of the most cautious and careful dirt jockeys I've seen in a long time.
Doc....are you at home or working.....because I would like to go find some nasty stuff and flex our rigs to the max and get some photos....you in???
Holy crap! This thread is growing faster than I can read!! Yeah, I'm home now but I can't go anywhere because I'm on back up call... and judging by the look of things when I left there an hour ago... I'm getting called back for sure.
Holy crap! This thread is growing faster than I can read!! Yeah, I'm home now but I can't go anywhere because I'm on back up call... and judging by the look of things when I left there an hour ago... I'm getting called back for sure.
you never get a break....thanks for the help on this thread so far...
Any thoughts on the warn and/or Arb bumper being very stiff and making the frame stiffer and the body taking the flex over the frame. Is this a possiblity?
Even though the concensous within this thread is leaning toward Toyota likely passing the responsibility of this problem onto the manufacturers of the aftermarket bumpers, tires, lift kits, etc., shouldn't Toyota have been aware of this problem long before any of us experienced it??
Not only has Toyota done extensive integrity and crash testing on the FJ and should know every little potential flaw within its design (and anything that could possibly corrupt it), but Toyota also advertises the FJC with all of the aforementioned equipment in its own published "Owner's Rigs" ads. Not to mention, promoting the use of heavy winch bumpers, winches, lift kits and agressive tires on their very own Trail Team vehicles.
Plus, many Toyota dealerships (including my own), not only install these items for their customers on the FJ's and guarantee their worthiness, but also have these comparably equipped FJ's sitting out on their sales lot for sale as brand new trucks.
If an aftermarket bumper, lift kit and/or set of tires supposedly caused this problem, wasn't it Toyota's responsibility to either discourage or prevent the installation of such items long beforehand?? No one from Toyota or the dealership ever bothered to warn me.
Even though the concensous within this thread is leaning toward Toyota likely passing the responsibility of this problem onto the manufacturers of the aftermarket bumpers, tires, lift kits, etc., shouldn't Toyota have been aware of this problem long before any of us experienced it??
Not only has Toyota done extensive integrity and crash testing on the FJ and should know every little potential flaw within its design (and anything that could possibly corrupt it), but Toyota also advertises the FJC with all of the aforementioned equipment in its own published "Owner's Rigs" ads. Not to mention, promoting the use of heavy winch bumpers, winches, lift kits and agressive tires on their very own Trail Team vehicles.
Plus, many Toyota dealerships (including my own), not only install these items for their customers on the FJ's and guarantee their worthiness, but also have these comparably equipped FJ's sitting out on their sales lot for sale as brand new trucks.
If an aftermarket bumper, lift kit and/or set of tires supposedly caused this problem, wasn't it Toyota's responsibility to either discourage or prevent the installation of such items long beforehand??
Not to be the voice of the devil or anything, but i think they do discourage these types of things..... And embrace them at the same time. Whats a guy to do.
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When small men cast long shadows, the sun is about to set.
Even though the concensous within this thread is leaning toward Toyota likely passing the responsibility of this problem onto the manufacturers of the aftermarket bumpers, tires, lift kits, etc., shouldn't Toyota have been aware of this problem long before any of us experienced it??
Not only has Toyota done extensive integrity and crash testing on the FJ and should know every little potential flaw within its design (and anything that could possibly corrupt it), but Toyota also advertises the FJC with all of the aforementioned equipment in its own published "Owner's Rigs" ads. Not to mention, promoting the use of heavy winch bumpers, winches, lift kits and agressive tires on their very own Trail Team vehicles.
Plus, many Toyota dealerships (including my own), not only install these items for their customers on the FJ's and guarantee their worthiness, but also have these comparably equipped FJ's sitting out on their sales lot for sale as brand new trucks.
This is one example of why a lot of dealerships will not install anyting except Toyota accessories, to cover their own asses. We had a Scion manager that took it upon himself to have a Lambo door kit installed on a tC in inventory.....how long do you think it stayed on?
If an aftermarket bumper, lift kit and/or set of tires supposedly caused this problem, wasn't it Toyota's responsibility to either discourage or prevent the installation of such items long beforehand?? No one from Toyota or the dealership ever bothered to warn me.
Quote:
MissFJ previously said:
The "they market it that way so it should be warranty/guaranteed that way" makes me angry at both sides. None of the trail teams FJ's (ask em how many rear ends and windshields they've gone thru ) are covered under warranty. Trying to stay off my soapbox so I'll end it by saying I'm glad they are moving to doing more show 'n shines.
On the Toyota FJ bulletin flash site it states:
Please use caution
Vehicle shown is modified with non-genuine Toyota parts and accessories. Modifications with these non-genuine Toyota parts and accessories will void Toyota warranty, may negatively impact vehicle performance and safety and may not be street legal. Off-roading is inherently risky.
This post is for informational purposes only, read at your own risk............legally, you have been warned by Toyota in the "fine print"
In other words, I think it's up to "us" to figure this one out.
Vehicle shown is modified with non-genuine Toyota parts and accessories. Modifications with these non-genuine Toyota parts and accessories will void Toyota warranty, may negatively impact vehicle performance and safety and may not be street legal. Off-roading is inherently risky.
This post is for informational purposes only, read at your own risk............legally, you have been warned by Toyota in the "fine print"
In other words, I think it's up to "us" to figure this one out.
I agree. But they do need to see what is happening to there rigs.
Bernd
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