Engine Bay Body Rips

[EWUJoe]

hpiguy previously said:

Good for you!

A few more lawsuits that they lose and I could see a recall being forced.

Thanks and I agree. TMC had literally nothing in writing to prove their case. I really could not have done this without this community and I'm grateful for all the information and help I have received here.

[sincityfjc]

EWUJoe previously said:

I won my arbitration. The tears were deemed to be a manufacturing defect and Toyota has to fix my FJ.

Please don't PM me about this, my box is totally full! All of the resources I used to win my arbitration are here and in the thread in my signature. I wish everyone the best of luck and I hope my success inspires you not to quit and to jump through all the hoops necessary to get your FJ fixed.

A Big Congrats

[Thai]

spincycle previously said:

Read harder. I seriously doubt that trucks built after a point sometime in the middle of '08 (don't have a specific date, nor do I think there is a specific day on which the change happened) will have the issue. And I'm not just speculating out my ***.

The cracks are not a safety issue in any real sense. Everything rests on the frame, and the frame integrity is not in question. Yes, it's a design flaw in early versions (rev 1 & 2) of the part in question...but there is little or no evidence to suggest that this could cause any safety issue under conceivable circumstances.

Spincycle, did Toyota buy you out?? Did you sell out? Sad.

#1...you need to re-evaluate your speculation because "homedad" ripped the 3rd version: Proof of new inner fender design!

As you can see, this guy managed to ripped the latest and greatest fender version. Did he abuse his FJ to cause it? Don't know...but when was the last time that you saw a fender rip occur in other vehicles (off-road or not, abuse or not)??? When was the last time you have ever heard of a body tearing?? I have not...until now.

#2...not a safety issue? Are you kidding me?!! Well, this crack is occuring in the crumple zone area, right?? If so, then this is a failure of the designed crumple zone. Properly designed crumple zones don't crack on its own!! If it is cracked, then it won't do much good in a frontal crash, right?!! If the fender is not aligned properly, then the crash forces will not dissipate correctly...the panels will not collapse according to design. How is this not a safety issue?

In addition, several pics in this thread showed misaligned door and hood panels. Hell, if you wait long enough, then you may not even be able to close and open your door(s). Not a safety issue? Are YOU on crack? Wait, are you on Toyota's time clock?

WTF are you talking about?!! Have you become a Toyota salesman? It seems like you are spewing the same crap that i hear from them! You have lost all sense of credibility IMHO.

Have a good day.

[ohiobenz]

how many body mounts are under the FJ?
I'm assuming (yeah I know) at least 6...
If the frame is flexing in the front - as some pix of changing gaps between the bumper and body panels indicate - then no amount of design change in the inner fender will prevent the eventual failure.

IMO its a frame problem.... and its being adressed with inner fender band-aids.

[ducati]

I came to the conclusion that we should sell our FJ. Resale value is strong right now, with the price of gasoline low, the '10's not yet out, and no real-world press about the potential issue... So we did well on a trade. Very well, in fact.

No matter how hard I looked, or ran my fingers across the area in question, I could not see ANY indication that our FJ was experiencing this issue. However, I don't like the possibility looming over my head, I'm not impressed with Toyota's manner of handling claims, and I'm positive gasoline will shoot back up to $4 making SUV's harder to offload... So we moved on.

As I stated previously, I do consider this a safety issue. Any damage to the crumple zone could affect its ability to perform as advertised. I suppose one could call this conjecture on my part, but it seems like an elementary observation. Everyone will obviously react differently, but this made me uncomfortable.

Additionally, my plan for the FJ was to do some modifications after the warranty period was up, and use it as an offroader and winter vehicle. Since modifications would likely affect Toyota's eventual handling of a rip or bulge, even in the event they were forced to warrant the issue past the warranty period, this seemed like a poor path.

Normally, I don't get very worried about "potential" problems. However, the cost of this repair out of warranty is onerous enough that I considered it differently than potential "trouble spots" on other vehicles. If the repair was under, say, $2k, I wouldn't have been so annoyed at the possibility and accepted it as a potential matter of course. I've owned German vehicles in the past which have required frequent repairs out of warranty, which add up quickly. However, none have necessitated a potentially $10k+ repair.

So after nearly 22k trouble-free miles, and one awesome family vacation to Vermont, we waved goodbye to the FJ this weekend.

Loved the vehicle, but hedged our bets elsewhere. So long, and enjoy those FJ's!!

[spincycle]

ohiobenz previously said:

how many body mounts are under the FJ?
I'm assuming (yeah I know) at least 6...
If the frame is flexing in the front - as some pix of changing gaps between the bumper and body panels indicate - then no amount of design change in the inner fender will prevent the eventual failure.

IMO its a frame problem.... and its being adressed with inner fender band-aids.

Wrong.
Sorry, but....wrong.

[spincycle]

Thai previously said:

Spincycle, did Toyota buy you out?? Did you sell out? Sad.

I'm getting pretty sick of these mindless accusations that I've been 'bought out' just because I managed to - via politeness and persistence - get my rig fixed.

Give it a bloody rest, or you and I will take it outside. Sorry, mods, but I'm plenty sick of this kind of innuendo.

Thai previously said:

#1...you need to re-evaluate your speculation because "homedad" ripped the 3rd version: Proof of new inner fender design!

Neither I, nor the service manager, nor the regional rep had ever heard of a 3rd gen part failing. I'm sure they'd love to inspect the vehicle. I know that Homedad wheels hard, so his would be a likely rig to first experience a failure. The more they see, the more they learn, the better they can do. Toyota is a HUGE company, made up of LOTS of very FALLIBLE humans, and it takes TIME for changes to happen. If they see and understand the issues at play in a rig like Homedad's, that will help with further improvements.

Thai previously said:

As you can see, this guy managed to ripped the latest and greatest fender version. Did he abuse his FJ to cause it? Don't know...but when was the last time that you saw a fender rip occur in other vehicles (off-road or not, abuse or not)??? When was the last time you have ever heard of a body tearing?? I have not...until now.

When was the last time you heard of metal rips in a multi-million dollar aircraft with VASTLY more R&D put into it han an FJ Cruiser? Machines are complicated. They are almost imopssible to perfectly model using even the best software inte world (look up "finite element analysis"). Shat happens. Deal with it, or sell your FJ. I don't care.

Thai previously said:

#2...not a safety issue? Are you kidding me?!! Well, this crack is occuring in the crumple zone area, right?? If so, then this is a failure of the designed crumple zone. Properly designed crumple zones don't crack on its own!! If it is cracked, then it won't do much good in a frontal crash, right?!! If the fender is not aligned properly, then the crash forces will not dissipate correctly...the panels will not collapse according to design. How is this not a safety issue?

How much mass and material is between the front fender an the firewall? This is one of the LAST areas that's going to be impacted. Worry about it you want. Lose sleep over it if you want. I don't, and wont. I also avoid front end crashes.

Thai previously said:

Not a safety issue? Are YOU on crack? Wait, are you on Toyota's time clock?

WTF are you talking about?!! Have you become a Toyota salesman? It seems like you are spewing the same crap that i hear from them! You have lost all sense of credibility IMHO.

Bing! Guess who just made my ignore list!

Thai previously said:

Have a good day.

You too, bub.

[GearType]

spincycle, have you thought about just avoiding this thread rather than getting caught up in personal fights? It's understandable for people to be upset about structural failure.

[spincycle]

GearType previously said:

spincycle, have you thought about just avoiding this thread rather than getting caught up in personal fights? It's understandable for people to be upset about structural failure.

Sure have. And I've been one of those upset people. Which is why I thought - and continue to think - that sharing my positive experience might actually helpful to some of the calmer, thoughtful readers here.

[Thai]

spincycle previously said:

Give it a bloody rest, or you and I will take it outside. Sorry, mods, but I'm plenty sick of this kind of innuendo.

Neither I, nor the service manager, nor the regional rep had ever heard of a 3rd gen part failing. I'm sure they'd love to inspect the vehicle. I know that Homedad wheels hard, so his would be a likely rig to first experience a failure. The more they see, the more they learn, the better they can do. Toyota is a HUGE company, made up of LOTS of very FALLIBLE humans, and it takes TIME for changes to happen. If they see and understand the issues at play in a rig like Homedad's, that will help with further improvements.

How much mass and material is between the front fender an the firewall? This is one of the LAST areas that's going to be impacted. Worry about it you want.

Bing! Guess who just made my ignore list!

spincycle,

Take it outside?? Where?? Are you acting like the big man behind the computer screen?! That is a pretty hilarious thing to say on the net! Ok, lets meet in Alaska by a local mudhole and we can duke it out, ok?!

As for the service manager "hearing" about issues...have you not read the many posts in THIS very thread about these managers/regional reps denying the very existence of this fender issue??!! So, just because the managers have not "heard" about it, then it does not exist?? If that is the case, then this whole thread does not exist either because Toyota itself is STILL denying repairs to many FJ owners! Have you not read this whole thread? Is there a TSB? Is there a recall??

Now, you say that Toyota need to look at Homedad's rig...but did you not say earlier that the 3rd gen fender was a permanent fix?? Let me remind you of what YOU wrote:

spincycle previously said:

Read harder. I seriously doubt that trucks built after a point sometime in the middle of '08 will have the issue. And I'm not just speculating out my ***.

So, is it safe for me to "assume" that you were indeed "seriously" speculating out of your arse??

As for your airplane link, aren't we talking about cars? Yeah, things are complicated, but i have not heard of a modern car with a fender tear like the FJ...and apparently, you have not either because you gave me a totally unrelated example.

spincycle previously said:

How much mass and material is between the front fender an the firewall? This is one of the LAST areas that's going to be impacted.

This is one of the dumbest thing that i have read, bar none. Sorry, but what you said here is just pure 100% junk. Are you seriously kidding me?! IT IS THE FREAKING CRUMPLE ZONE OF THE VEHICLE. It is made to deform in any frontal crash that reach the front of the body with forces exceeding what the 5-mph front bumper can handle. What does "mass and material" have to do with anything? Did you know that the engine is supposed to drop down in a crash? So, there goes your "mass"! Therefore, it is one of the FIRST area to react to a significant frontal crash!! I still can't believe what you said above! Oh yeah, i think that puts your (lack of) credibility to rest!

Since you clearly show a lack of understanding about crumple zones, here are two good links for you to read:

Howstuffworks "How Crumple Zones Work"

Crumple Zones

Thanks for putting me on your IGNORE list...but i won't to you because i am man enough to back up what i write.