I have done both (pics in this thread and the thread of just pics), and took it to the dealer. The service writer just shrugged his shoulders and said "thats interesting, never seen that before" and that was it. He didn't want to write a ticket or anything.
This is not about what that service writer "wants" - this is about you protecting the integrity of your $30 k investment. If you buy a soda at 7-11 with a $20 bill, would you leave without your change because the clerk doesn't want to open the register ??? I don't think so. DEMAND to have your concerns documented, and if the SW isn't willing to take this seriously, someone up the ladder at that dealership will. One call to the Regional office will change their minds and ruin their day...The management won't likely let that happen... Go back, and be polite, but be firm in your resolve...
Good Luck
__________________
" I'm not aware of too many things, but I know what I know, if you know what I mean..."
"Your enthusiasm for the subject borders on the interesting..."
i forgot to state my build date: 11/06. bought the rig on jan 18, 2007. almost 14,000 miles to date.
Just to contrast this.. I have the TRD SE, same build date, same mileage (14k) and no bulge/crack.. knock on wood.
I have moderate off road use, but alot of road tripping (mountain biking)/fire roads.
I'm glad to hear Toyota is getting to work on this but I'm sure the solution/remedy will not arrive quickly. I'd like to take some precautionary measures now rather than wait for something to happen.
While I was checking my FJ for damage I noticed two M6 (I think) threaded holes on the passenger fender wall.. They are on either side of the crumple zone where the tears are appearing. The drivers side has a similar layout but they have brackets fastened to them.. (perhaps they are there for Left hand/Right hand drive versions of the FJ.. Prado??)
I was thinking of just cutting up a piece of 1/8-1/4" flat stock (4130.. or alum?..) and drilling 2 clearance holes for some M6 screws/fasteners to overlay the weak area (side and top, L-shaped stock perhaps: the flat stock mounted vertically would give a good inertia value for resistance of cycles found during normal driving; highway etc. And the horizontal piece would give a good resistance for resiting twist; crawling, articulation etc).. I think this may be sufficient to prevent further "damage." That way I can remove the "fix" later if/when Toyota comes up with a solution.
What do you guys think?.. is there anyway a templorary fix like that would accelerate the problem? Would the fact that the load would be carried by the two fasteners surrounding the faulty area make it worse? Since Toyota's initial thoughts seem to be leaning towards a resonance issue.. I think a simple fix like that is really all you need to change the dynamics/"harmonics" of the situation.. Not to mention the rigidity it will add to the sheet metal..
My only concern with the resonance issue is, it would seem that we wouldn't see this issue on so many different vehicles with different wheel/tire/springrate setups.. My understanding is resonance only occurs when all conditions are "perfect" and this "range" tends to be very narrow (think tacoma narrows bridge).. I'm thinking what toyota means to say is it is a cyclic stress issue.. either way, I think "bandaging" the area can't hurt.
I realize their are other concerns as far as the crash liability issue.. *Pure speculation here* The nature of the failure on the crumple zone would appear to me as though it would just blow the flatstock off to the side and not turn it into a projectile for dash board.. However, it's pretty apparent the flatstock would fail between the two threaded supports, before the thread could pull out.. So I suppose the remaining fastened pieces could be dangerous. Perhaps we could work around this be using some type of shear pin instead of threaded connections, which would fail beforehand..
..jeez.. I may be reaching here but I'd rather do something then wait for Toyota to "step up"
Just to contrast this.. I have the TRD SE, same build date, same mileage (14k) and no bulge/crack.. knock on wood.
I have moderate off road use, but alot of road tripping (mountain biking)/fire roads.
I'm glad to hear Toyota is getting to work on this but I'm sure the solution/remedy will not arrive quickly. I'd like to take some precautionary measures now rather than wait for something to happen.
While I was checking my FJ for damage I noticed two M6 (I think) threaded holes on the passenger fender wall.. They are on either side of the crumple zone where the tears are appearing. The drivers side has a similar layout but they have brackets fastened to them.. (perhaps they are there for Left hand/Right hand drive versions of the FJ.. Prado??)
What do you guys think?.. is there anyway a templorary fix like that would accelerate the problem?
My answer to your questions, based on my discussions with Toyota, my engineering experience, and my visual inspection of dozens of FJCs...
Don't do anything !!!
I appears, from your description, that you have the revised inner fenderwells that I've seen on the late release 07s and new 08s - you may never have the problem.
Do not reinforce the inner fender well - the problem is causing the weakest area to crack - the cracking is a symptom, not the problem - and by strengthening that area, you will transmit the vibration to the new, weak area - where ever that might be. You'll end up with a new symptom from the same problem.
I suggest everyone be patient, and avoid "fixing" a problem whose cause has not yet been determined...
__________________
" I'm not aware of too many things, but I know what I know, if you know what I mean..."
"Your enthusiasm for the subject borders on the interesting..."
My answer to your questions, based on my discussions with Toyota, my engineering experience, and my visual inspection of dozens of FJCs...
Don't do anything !!!
Do not reinforce the inner fenderwell - the problem is causing the weakest area to crack - the cracking is a symptom, not the problem - and be strengthening that area, you will transmit the vibration to the new, weak area - whereever that might be. You'll end up with a new symptom from the same problem.
I suggest everyone be patient, and avoid "fixing" a problem whose cause has not yet been determined...
An old saying is "...sometimes the cures worse than the problem"!!!
Wait it out!
__________________
Happy Trails!
TLCA #17625
LOS TRES AMIGOS IN MEXICO
TITANIUM METALLIC--A/T
ARB Bumper - Warn Winch - OME Heavy 886/895 - Bandi Mount - All-Pro Lower link skids - Bud Built skids - Snorkle - Toyota prefilter (cyclone air filter) - Optima Yellow Top Battery - Painless Dual Battery Control System - Scuba Driver Mod - Kenwood DN
X 7120 GPS - A-TRAC mod - 110v add-on - Rock Rails - Rear Locker - Roof Rack - BFG TA/KO's - ARB Fridge/Freezer - '08 side visor mod - Royal Purple fluids - E3.68 Spark Plugs - All Pro Rear Bumper - M-Pac rear and side mounts
To be continued...
I agree, we should wait this one out until Toyota comes forth with a position.
In the case that there is no satisfactory resolution, my personal approach will probably be to search for some semi-structural spray foam (if it exists). I think if the outer fender skins are removed, the entire channel could be filled with the spray in foam. Once the foam hardens, it would provide some stiffening, and also some damping. I would also be un-noticable from the engine bay.
I agree, we should wait this one out until Toyota comes forth with a position.
In the case that there is no satisfactory resolution, my personal approach will probably be to search for some semi-structural spray foam (if it exists). I think if the outer fender skins are removed, the entire channel could be filled with the spray in foam. Once the foam hardens, it would provide some stiffening, and also some damping. I would also be un-noticable from the engine bay.
Shawn
If they don't completely fix this problem, i.e. like it was never there, the resale value of these units is going to be jack squat. Anyone who knows anything about them, or searches the net, is going to be looking for the cracks or signs of a shoddy repair.
Quote:
You're going to see minor flaws pop up on any new vehicle, whether it's an FJ, LR3, Rubicon, or whatever. And, the issue isn't so much that these flaws do occassionaly occur . . . . but how the manufacturer ultimately deals with them and eventually satisfies their cutomers.
I love my truck too, but this attitude continues to perplex me. This isn't a minor flaw, no matter how you want to slice it. I have never seen something like this on a new vehicle in 20 years of buying new vehicles, and for that matter I never saw it the 10 years before that when I was driving used ones. Anyone who is searching the web for information on the FJ is more than justified in holding off a purchase until they see how this works out. I would, and probably most of you would too.
__________________
Black Cherry
+Goodies
Stock for now
My answer to your questions, based on my discussions with Toyota, my engineering experience, and my visual inspection of dozens of FJCs...
Don't do anything !!!
Do not reinforce the inner fenderwell - the problem is causing the weakest area to crack - the cracking is a symptom, not the problem - and be strengthening that area, you will transmit the vibration to the new, weak area - whereever that might be. You'll end up with a new symptom from the same problem.
I suggest everyone be patient, and avoid "fixing" a problem whose cause has not yet been determined...
Quote:
LandCruiserSteve previously said:
X2!!!!!
Quote:
w5wi previously said:
An old saying is "...sometimes the cures worse than the problem"!!!
Wait it out!
This is great advice, everybody. Be patient. We are dealing with a class Automotive Company who will NOT let their reputation be tarnished permanently on a vehicle that is "taking the off-road world by storm". Too many people are focused on this truck right now and it just would not make sense to back down from a problem. It happens. It's repairable. Stand behind it and the world will know.
I love my truck too, but this attitude continues to perplex me. This isn't a minor flaw, no matter how you want to slice it. I have never seen something like this on a new vehicle in 20 years of buying new vehicles, and for that matter I never saw it the 10 years before that when I was driving used ones.
The attitude you display perplexes me - no one saying that this issue should be ignored, or that it isn't a problem, including the Toyota people several of us have met with. What I am saying (and some others have concurred) is to wait and see what toyota intends to do about it before deciding your vehicle is useless, has no resale value, and that Toyota is an evil company. I've been repairing and customizing vehicles for 30 years, and I've seen all sorts of factory "defects", including some much more dangerous that are still not fixed (i.e. the ignition switches on Ford truck for the last 15 years, that despite 2 of the largest recalls in history, are still failing...).
Toyota, on the other hand, has a history of nipping problems in the bud - not waiting for mandatory recall campaigns to be ordered, but rather to take care of problems when they arise (i.e. the piston ring issue with 3.0l V-6 motors - I've had friends go in for a service and come out with a new engine at no charge..., the tires that were incorrectly installed by a third party on the early FJ Cruisers, etc...). This is why Toyota has become the world's largest car manufacturer, as well as the most profitable...and why even the most die-hard "buy American" salespeople use Toyota quality as a comparison at dealerships everywhere.
Toyota has not denied the problem exists, or told anyone to take a hike. But it is reasonable, to me, that they might need some time to determine what caused this issue, and to come up with a solution to prevent its recurrence. A doctor can't prescribe the medicines until the test results come back...
__________________
" I'm not aware of too many things, but I know what I know, if you know what I mean..."
"Your enthusiasm for the subject borders on the interesting..."
What I am saying (and some others have concurred) is to wait and see what toyota intends to do about it before deciding your vehicle is useless, has no resale value, and that Toyota is an evil company. I've been repairing and customizing vehicles for 30 years, and I've seen all sorts of factory "defects", including some much more dangerous that are still not fixed (i.e. the ignition switches on Ford truck for the last 15 years, that despite 2 of the largest recalls in history, are still failing...).
I'm not disagreeing with any of that, Larry. But I think it is obviously incorrect to characterize this as a minor problem. It's not a minor problem when sheet metal starts to rip on a line of trucks that haven't even been in the field for two years. Yes, I think Toyota will step up the plate. I only hope it isn't a fundamental design issue. But it strikes me as fanboish to keep saying this is minor.
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Black Cherry
+Goodies
Stock for now
).. I'm thinking what toyota means to say is it is a cyclic stress issue.. either way, I think "bandaging" the area can't hurt.
Perhaps we could work around this be using some type of shear pin instead of threaded connections, which would fail beforehand..
