MAJOR safety issue, seems to me

Willpower · 09-01-2007, 08:08 PM

OK, I posted this previously as a reply in the main body rips thread, but I really do think it deserves its' own thread, as I haven't seen anyone else address this potentiality. I was afraid my concern might get lost in the many replies of that thread, and would like some of your thoughts on this.

I have an early build FJ, stock except for BFG All Terrains and rock rails.

I have no bulges/cracks, but check often now. It scares me some that I paid 30k for a truck that may have a major issue. I am confident Toyota will take care of it sufficiently so as to make the truck sound and customers happy.

I do not agree with those who discount this as a minor issue, "not a safety issue", or one that will only be fixed under certain circumstances. Here's why and here's my take.

Correct me if I'm wrong guys, but it seems plain to me after reading and studying the pics that the problem rests in the crumple zones of the front structure. In that one area, it seems that there is "crumple" and breakage/failure of the metal prematurely and not from frontal impact. We don't know the cause yet, obviously, but we do know that some trucks are experiencing this failure.

How can this possibly NOT be a safety issue? If the crumple zones are already crumpling in one area on one or both sides of the truck, does this not mean that there would be less intact structure there to absorb impact in the event of a frontal collision? If so, this is a potential MAJOR liability for Toyota Motor co., and I suspect they will respond appropriately. Wrongful death lawsuits related to this issue would be a PR and financial nightmare, and one I'm sure Toyota would try to avoid.

I suspect if this problem proves a design flaw and widespread, we may see a quick and unprecedented "fix". That is my hope anyway.

EddieLasVegas · 09-01-2007, 08:53 PM

I agree with you, but some people on this forum are so defensive about their FJ's you'd think they gave birth to them. For proof, see my thread on selling my FJ from a couple days ago.

Anyway, this is the last straw in my mind regarding the FJ. I mean, paint chips, windshields cracks, body ripples and all the mods people have to do for basic conveniences (map light, center covered console, 12v outlets, functional sun visors, etc.) in a modern car just seems unacceptable to me for a vehicle from Toyota. Toyota did not just start building vehicles yesterday, but you'd never know it by FJ.

Here's hoping nobody on the forums is hurt due to this piss poor vehicle.

Eddie

MarkBNJ · 09-01-2007, 10:35 PM

Yeah, I'm waiting for mine to just jump off the road and into a tree due to nefarious n00b engineering on Toyota's part.

Thanks for stopping in. Glad you were able to sell your truck. Enjoy your Trailblazer, or whatever you end up with.

But if you think the FJ is a "piss poor" vehicle because it didn't have enough map lights and outlets for your taste, then you didn't look very closely at it before buying.

If you think it's a "piss poor" vehicle because the paint chips, that tells me this must be your first new vehicle in a long time. If it's because the Windshield chips that tells me you don't know much about windshield specs, and didn't notice how vertical it was before buying the thing.

The panel thing I will give you, and if I had one of those early panels I would demand that they replace it now, ripping or no ripping. But overall the FJ Cruiser is not "piss poor" just because it didn't meet your needs and had some practicality concessions that you should have been aware of before you bought it

Best of luck to you.

FJ913 · 09-02-2007, 08:19 AM

The windshield thing is just not right, look at jeep i owned a wrangler for 5 years and never one chip or crack in the windshield, there has to be some kind of fix, better windshield something. other than that i love my fj cruiser im not a big fan of all those excessories, its not beemer or benz. Its a vehicle designed to go offroad and get u back home.

SavageX25 · 09-02-2007, 08:40 AM

Quote:

FJ913 previously said:

The windshield thing is just not right, look at jeep i owned a wrangler for 5 years and never one chip or crack in the windshield, there has to be some kind of fix, better windshield something. other than that i love my fj cruiser im not a big fan of all those excessories, its not beemer or benz. Its a vehicle designed to go offroad and get u back home.

Even Jeeps windshields aren't as wide as the FJs, there are people who make replacement plexi-glass windshields, currently they are made for jeeps, hopefully they will be made for FJ's down the road. And FYI, the FJ was NOT made to be a luxury vehicle at all, that's why it's lacking a few things here in there, yes they are small, and YES it would have been very nice of them to add them into it, but you have to remember, FIRST YEAR RUN! you need to expect stuff like this, Toyota or not, hell atleast I don't have FLAMES coming out of my tail pipe which quite a few 07 F-350's had. You KNOW that can't be good. Recall galore.

Also, the FJ got very very good crash ratings, I believe four starts in each (or was it five?) the only one it got a three in was roll over (dur). I am very impressed at the handling of the FJ compared to the jeeps...really corners well and no feeling of it about to tip etc, excellent engine, unique body style (sticks out), I'd say it's the mini-cooper of SUVS, I have a few problems myself, nothing involving the frame, just the A\C randomly rattling, and now paint chipping, which I will expect Toyota to fix. The chips are on the hood at a part where it's basically impossible for a rock to hit, much less 400 small little chips (dot size) lol, then again this is happening with a lot of cars now...cheap paint due to "saftey o-zone" reasons and crap, soon everyone will have to use this crap paint.

I do find it odd that people are now bashing the FJ...when every reviewer so far has loved it..

**Mtbcoach** · 09-02-2007, 09:01 AM

Then sell it like Eddie is doing, take your hit and move on. There are plenty of other vehicles on the market and I'm sure you'll find another to put your anxiety into.

If you are not a "victim" of the body bulge/rip, what's the beef? If this is a true safety issue, governmental agencies will FORCE Toyota to make changes/recalls to make it compliant with federal requirements. Funny how on one hand we praise the FJ for its crash test ratings but now its unsafe. If I had the bulging/ripping in the crumple zone, I would do just as every level headed FJ owner has done...take it to the dealer, document it with photos and monitor it at a regular basis.

Companies like Toyota didn't achieve the level of success that they have by ignoring such issues and creating a negative public image. I'm saying this as a first time "import" owner, NOT a Toyota "fan boy", just a rational adult who believes that responsible companies will make responsible decisions, particularly in such a high visibility vehicle like the FJ...

podex_equus · 09-02-2007, 09:18 AM

Quote:

SavageX25 previously said:

Even Jeeps windshields aren't as wide as the FJs, there are people who make replacement plexi-glass windshields, currently they are made for jeeps, hopefully they will be made for FJ's down the road.

You'd probably want polycarbonate for the windshield. Due to its hardness, acrylic gets sandblasted worse than glass and is relatively brittle. Polycarbonate is pretty much unbreakable but scratches REALLY easily. Regular glass is much better for long term use.

I know some fabricators. If you want, I can ask how much they'd charge for molding a new windshield.

frogeye · 09-02-2007, 09:34 AM

Maybe, but I doubt it. That ripple area/crumple zone is still going to function the way it was intended to in a frontal impact. It's going to crumple! I'm sure that Toyota will figure out the design flaw or possibly it was just a manufacturing problem.

I love reading people's opinions on the FJ. Trivial. The windshield thing (and I subscribed to it) is a bit of a biatch but really, I've had one rock that hit and star it in the past 8 months. It's bound to happen with the design. Hopefully down the road replacement windshields will be more durable.

Adding map lights, 12 volt power etc? WTF man that is fun. The FJ is not a mall crawler, it's a purpose built vehicle and many of us customize it the way we want it because it's EASY to do and does not take that much time at all. It sounds like maybe Eddie, you should have looked at a fully loaded Lexus.

These are all very minor things when you compare them to how awesome the FJ is off road and on road. It is very unique and does an awesome job at what it was designed to do. I'm a proud owner. Can you tell?

Kansas Law Dog · 09-02-2007, 09:39 AM

To get this thread back on topic, I have wondered the same thing Willpower pointed out, although he put to words better than I would have.

A ripped inner fender may have compromised the intended crumple zone design, but I'm not sure in what way. The dilemma that Toyota has right now is how to redesign the inner fender. Will it be thicker metal, or re-enforced at the dimple locations? Finally, will the redesign require Toyota to go recertify the vehicle for crash test rating? If the later is true, then it may take longer for Toyota to formally present a solution to the current owners.

I read in another thread where the inner fender replacements are on permanent back order. Seems that Toyota recognizes that the inner fender problem is sufficient to require a redesign. Finally, I wonder if the production line in Japan has been put on hold?

Tankota · 09-02-2007, 09:54 AM

I may have missed it, but I thought on the newer ones coming off the line the spacing between the crumple creases had been increased to prevent this - so they have already made a change and the production line would not be slowed. Besides, it would have to be something major to stop a production line, usualy they make a change and just phase it in once the part is available, the line doesn't come to a stop while waiting for a redesign.

Toyota may start replacing them under a TSB or other memo for those that ask, but unless it is a real safty issue it won't be recalled, recalls are very expensive and very very very bad PR for a vehical line.