So we need to wait until the signs are up? What if a trail has been determined to be off limits but I missed the sign because I came in on an off-shoot? Think Lamartine: want to guess how many signs that would take? Will the phrase and practice "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" be enforced? Where is the master list? Will the enforcement officials carry it? If I am stopped, and there are no signs or postings, I want proof that the trail I am on has indeed been deemed prohibited from use by OHVs.
From my limited understanding....no real enforcement will occur until (although I'd *guess* this is somewhat at the LEO's discretion) the appropriate signage is posted.
Off shoots and trail braids are MAJOR problems with this sort of regulation. Once tracks are laid legally or not, you cannot tell what was the original right of way and what was not, so a sign would have to be posted at EVERY trail braid....a daunting, expensive and excruciatingly slow process at the least.
The main problem with this type of legislation is the precedence it sets for all areas open to legal motorized and mechanized use. Closed unless posted policies effectively close all trails until expensive and lengthy EAs are done and then you have to go through the rigamarole of public comment periods, and enaction of plans.....literally YEARS in the making; all the while so-called "temporary" emergency closures can be enacted until the plans are solidified and approved.
If you are stopped and there are no signs.... it's simple: YOU ARE IN VIOLATION (b/c it's "closed unless posted open"). The absence of a sign means it's closed, even if it's a pre-existing to 1976, legal right of way. Now, perhaps this particular CO law is written differently (and perhaps that's why it's supported by the OHV community there...or they've been duped as has happened in CA and in AZ) and pre-existing RoW is not included. I don't know.....I'm speaking only in board generalities about "Closed Unless Posted Open" (CUPO) policy.
Where I would highly caution those affected by this legislation is if there are plans for a "OHV sticker" program. It will be sold to you as a way to "ensure" your trails are inventoried and assessed and will remain protected for OHV use and remain open. They will also promise that you will have facilities' improvements like camping sites, vault toilets, potable water, etc. But, as has been proven in both AZ and CA, they will misappropriate the funding using it for things such as the illegal purchase of public land by environmental groups and then close that land to public use. They will use the funding for signage and enforcement of closure. Essentially the sticker program will fund the closure, and you'll be footing the bill!
You see, NFS and BLM are both severely underfunded by the Federal government. In times of economic upheaval (like we are entering now), even less funding is available to these entities. Afterall, there's less complaining about budget cuts from the relatively small number of forest land users than there would be if the govt. chose to cut a social entitlement program. In short, with the budget the NFS and BLM have, they cannot pay for and put up signs for closure, much less pay the salary of enforcement officers. With a "OHV sticker program".....they can harvest that money from the fees.
Sean
__________________
"Awww....c'mon now dawg. You know I was just ****in' with ya. You know I give ya the mad, phat, super-fly, stupid, dope, dumbass, retarded, bomb **** props."
Off shoots and trail braids are MAJOR problems with this sort of regulation. Once tracks are laid legally or not, you cannot tell what was the original right of way and what was not, so a sign would have to be posted at EVERY trail braid....a daunting, expensive and excruciatingly slow process at the least.
The main problem with this type of legislation is the precedence it sets for all areas open to legal motorized and mechanized use. Closed unless posted policies effectively close all trails until expensive and lengthy EAs are done and then you have to go through the rigamarole of public comment periods, and enaction of plans
Once again princess you took the words out of my mouth.
It's almost as though they (the tree huggers - for lack of a better word) complained about it and them (the s**theads who make laws - no better word for that) told them it was impossible to mark every trail designated OHV, so in their great wisdom they reversed it around. So now it's up to us to sit back and wait for them to mark every one of the trails (if this ever happens).
You know when I lived in Oklahoma, my alergies were bad, the only thing I could take over the counter to help was Tylenol Sinus. Then some brilliant law maker came along and made a law that limited the amount a person could by in a 30 day time frame in order to stop meth labs. Now did that stop them, hell no, they kept making meth without so much as a hiccup in production. The stores stopped carrying it altogether because the task keeping track of who bought how much out weighed the revenue they were making on selling it to begin with. Who did this hurt, the law abiding citizens not the meth makers.
My point is this, the people that are breaking the laws already aren't going to stop tearing up the land out there, it's only going to hurt those of us who respect it and care for it.
RockyMtnHigh aka Mom
__________________ 08 Brick 4X4 AT
OME 3" Lift - BFG ATs - Bud Built Skids - Demello Front Bumper - Warn M8000 Winch w/ AmSteel Blue Line - Hella Lights, Roof and Bumper - The Box v.RMH - White out mirrors, door handles and blacked out rear bumper
Location: I ain't like them, but I can pretend <<<=8)
Posts: 2,103
Re: New Colorado Off-road Law signed
Well... I have to agree with you here.. They'll often bait the "locals" with just such policies "ensuring" their continued access with "controls" being placed on the unruly outsiders. I heard all about this last summer while in CO. Some of the CO forum members (not here, Jeep forum) as well as some of the citizenry were ready to restrict the rest of us to the roads, period. The left will buy in to get a toe hold on restricting all access and the locals will buy in to protect their own turf. They'll feel like it's the only way to prevent a total restriction and after all......... I spoke with a number of folks in CO about this and honestly I was shocked at the resentment toward outsiders. My understanding is that similar things have happened in Norcal, WA, etc.. I don't know.. Just what I read and what people tell me.. But the attitude I encountered in CO last summer was not "Ya-all come back now, ya-hear".. Ron
Disclaimer.. Just my experience and opinions derived thereof
Quote:
Sean K. previously said:
From my limited understanding....no real enforcement will occur until (although I'd *guess* this is somewhat at the LEO's discretion) the appropriate signage is posted.
Off shoots and trail braids are MAJOR problems with this sort of regulation. Once tracks are laid legally or not, you cannot tell what was the original right of way and what was not, so a sign would have to be posted at EVERY trail braid....a daunting, expensive and excruciatingly slow process at the least.
The main problem with this type of legislation is the precedence it sets for all areas open to legal motorized and mechanized use. Closed unless posted policies effectively close all trails until expensive and lengthy EAs are done and then you have to go through the rigamarole of public comment periods, and enaction of plans.....literally YEARS in the making; all the while so-called "temporary" emergency closures can be enacted until the plans are solidified and approved.
If you are stopped and there are no signs.... it's simple: YOU ARE IN VIOLATION (b/c it's "closed unless posted open"). The absence of a sign means it's closed, even if it's a pre-existing to 1976, legal right of way. Now, perhaps this particular CO law is written differently (and perhaps that's why it's supported by the OHV community there...or they've been duped as has happened in CA and in AZ) and pre-existing RoW is not included. I don't know.....I'm speaking only in board generalities about "Closed Unless Posted Open" (CUPO) policy.
Where I would highly caution those affected by this legislation is if there are plans for a "OHV sticker" program. It will be sold to you as a way to "ensure" your trails are inventoried and assessed and will remain protected for OHV use and remain open. They will also promise that you will have facilities' improvements like camping sites, vault toilets, potable water, etc. But, as has been proven in both AZ and CA, they will misappropriate the funding using it for things such as the illegal purchase of public land by environmental groups and then close that land to public use. They will use the funding for signage and enforcement of closure. Essentially the sticker program will fund the closure, and you'll be footing the bill!
You see, NFS and BLM are both severely underfunded by the Federal government. In times of economic upheaval (like we are entering now), even less funding is available to these entities. Afterall, there's less complaining about budget cuts from the relatively small number of forest land users than there would be if the govt. chose to cut a social entitlement program. In short, with the budget the NFS and BLM have, they cannot pay for and put up signs for closure, much less pay the salary of enforcement officers. With a "OHV sticker program".....they can harvest that money from the fees.
Sean
__________________
08 SS, SS valve stem caps and exhaust tip
Rapper standing on the corner, wrappers flying in the wind... And in my quite reflection, I wonder why..
But the attitude I encountered in CO last summer was not "Ya-all come back now, ya-hear".. Ron
Disclaimer.. Just my experience and opinions derived thereof
Hey Ron! You're more than welcome around here, if anyone's got a problem with it let me know. I'll stand right next to you while we tell them to kiss our (well you know). I am sure you respect the land as most of us do.
__________________ 08 Brick 4X4 AT
OME 3" Lift - BFG ATs - Bud Built Skids - Demello Front Bumper - Warn M8000 Winch w/ AmSteel Blue Line - Hella Lights, Roof and Bumper - The Box v.RMH - White out mirrors, door handles and blacked out rear bumper
I heard all about this last summer while in CO. Some of the CO forum members (not here, Jeep forum) as well as some of the citizenry were ready to restrict the rest of us to the roads, period. The left will buy in to get a toe hold on restricting all access and the locals will buy in to protect their own turf. They'll feel like it's the only way to prevent a total restriction and after all......... I spoke with a number of folks in CO about this and honestly I was shocked at the resentment toward outsiders. My understanding is that similar things have happened in Norcal, WA, etc.. I don't know.. Just what I read and what people tell me..
Disclaimer.. Just my experience and opinions derived thereof
There is a huge motion to go this route in Nor-Cal. We need to think about more than just the 4wheelers, what about hunters and fisherman? If you buy in to property, what happens when the lawmakers re-zone and say no engine combustion/ trail making allowed on "YOUR" property?
Give them an inch, they'll take a mile. Don't give them an inch!
It’s all a bunch of crap, it’s called incrementalisim, they move forward with little steps forward, slowly taking away our rights, it’s all about the land grabs that have been going on now for years. They are in essence removing private property rights away from citizens. Most of us only are seeing the trees from the forest, but ALL of this comes under the “Man in the Biosphere” treaty that the US is part of under the United Nations Global Agenda 21 for Sustainable Development.
Most American people don’t even know that their US parks are all under this UN Program that “BELONG” to the UN and under their guidelines. The ultimate goal is doing away with individual Property rights. We are about the only country left that has these rights. There is a 200 mile wide strip of land boarding both the US and Mexico which is controlled under this same Agenda 21. Which is under UN control, this is the main reason why we still don’t have a boarder fence.
All of the US water areas around lakes and rivers are being mandated by the UN to all come under the Agenda 21 guidelines. If you want to learn more about it, there are littlerly tons of paperwork concerning everything I have just mentioned. They keep switching there web links around every so often to make it harder to go back and find something. They try to cover their tracks by producing massive amounts of documents which intern link to another document.
They even have colored US maps showing the biological “Reserves” that allow no humans, it’s unbelievable that amount of work that has been done under the American people, I have been researching this program myself and started writing a book on this and many other situations about 12 years ago…It’s a real eye opener when you look at the whole picture, it’s not just road closures, it’s much bigger than most of you understand.
__________________
.
"Good people sleep peacefully at night safe in the knowledge that rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf" (George Orwell)
Location: I ain't like them, but I can pretend <<<=8)
Posts: 2,103
Re: New Colorado Off-road Law signed
Thank you for that.. I'm just a friendly respectful southern boy, it really hurt my feelings.. with what was said and how we were treated. I was just blind-sided by it all.. Ron
Quote:
RockyMtnHigh previously said:
Hey Ron! You're more than welcome around here, if anyone's got a problem with it let me know. I'll stand right next to you while we tell them to kiss our (well you know). I am sure you respect the land as most of us do.
__________________
08 SS, SS valve stem caps and exhaust tip
Rapper standing on the corner, wrappers flying in the wind... And in my quite reflection, I wonder why..
Damn, I had that one coming! 
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