Reasons why CBers should consider HAM Radio

[fjpenguin]

fjpenguin previously said:

I am asking why [it's illegal to use a HAM transceiver to transmit in the CB frequencies], given that, in theory, a HAM enthusiast should be able to build their own equipment. So [why can't] you could build a device that transmits in both HAM and CB frequencies (as long as you keep yourself to authorized frequencies), given that your HAM license wouldn't preclude you from transmitting in CB frequencies (which require no license).

Just to answer my own question, after some discussions with co-workers with HAM licenses, the most compelling technical explanation I got is that the CB licensed frequencies are not a continuous range; instead they are discretized in channels. Since HAM devices use variable frequency oscillators, which you can use to select any frequency within a range, the operator would be able to operate between the licensed CB channels. That, whether you have a HAM license or not, and whether CB requires a license or not, would be illegal (the CB charter is only for the specific channels). Sounds like a reasonable explanation to me. I'd be happy to hear other views.

Regarding building your own transceiver, the guys I spoke to seemed pretty clear that HAM ops are licensed to actually build or otherwise modify, and operate a device in their assigned licensed frequency ranges. They pointed me to a link to the relevant FCC statutes, but I didn't try to confirm.

Part 97 -- Subpart F

[KD7NAC_07FJ]

fjpenguin previously said:

Just to answer my own question, after some discussions with co-workers with HAM licenses, the most compelling technical explanation I got is that the CB licensed frequencies are not a continuous range; instead they are discretized in channels. Since HAM devices use variable frequency oscillators, which you can use to select any frequency within a range, the operator would be able to operate between the licensed CB channels. That, whether you have a HAM license or not, and whether CB requires a license or not, would be illegal (the CB charter is only for the specific channels). Sounds like a reasonable explanation to me. I'd be happy to hear other views.

Regarding building your own transceiver, the guys I spoke to seemed pretty clear that HAM ops are licensed to actually build or otherwise modify, and operate a device in their assigned licensed frequency ranges. They pointed me to a link to the relevant FCC statutes, but I didn't try to confirm.

Part 97 -- Subpart F

Part 97 - Subpart F has to do with testing requirements not operating regulations. Subpart D outlines the Technical Standards.

OK so we have covered why you can't use specific equipment for specific operations now were on to "operator authorization".

Whether you build your own rig or buy one as a licensed armature radio operator you are still restricted to specific frequencies. Those frequencies exclude the CB "band" even between the CB channel frequencies.

See: ARRL.org - Ham Bands


You will notice the the 12 meter "band" starts at 24.89MHz and ends at 24.99MHz and the 10 meter band starts at 28MHz and ends at 29.7MHz.

CB Channels are between 26.965MHz and go through 27.405MHz.

An armature radio operator is not authorized to operate on just any frequency, they are restricted to operations and frequencies shown in the chart above that their specific level of license allows.

If you are a HAM and you are caught operating "off frequency" or on frequencies you are not authorized to operate on you can loose your license. If your loose your license it is next to impossible to get it back. It's not like getting your drivers license suspended. You loose your HAM ticket, it's pretty much gone unless you have some really compelling case and then your appeal process is with the FCC in Washington (DC) if you can get them to hear your case. They are not even obligated to hear your appeal.

If a ham looses their license not only can they not operate as an armature any more but they can't even be a "third party operator". As a ham if I were talking with another ham I could hand the mic to you and you could also talk to them as an unlicensed operator as long as I was there. You would be the "third party operator". A ham who has had their ticket revoked isn't even allowed to do that.

Even though CB operation does not require a license, your armature license restricts you from operating on those frequencies. Back to the reason for regulations in the first place. So everybody isn't transmitting over everybody else.

I know the next thing you are going to post. What about a non-HAM using a modified ham rig to transmit on CB frequencies. Now you are back to using a non-type rated radio on bands it is not rated for.

And as far as a HAM using a CB, FRS, GMRS or whatever other type specific radio, using that specific type rated radio they are not operating as a HAM and they, like everyone else are restricted to the limits of those devices/regulations.

We can bat this back and forth forever but the bottom line is you've got a bunch of bureaucrats in DC who have spent decades defining the rules and regulations of the FCC and I can assure you pretty much everything is covered.

[1leglance]

wow that is some great info and way way way more patience to write it all than I have
In the end it I understand we would all like 1 radio that we could push button A for cb, B for family, C for Ham , D for marine and then maybe have it scan all those cool police and fire freq the rest of the time....
What I don't understand is why folks won't just accept that a $40 cb will work great and can be small, a $120 2m ham will be great and be small and a couple of mag mount antennas (you could choose to only use the 1 most common in your group at a time) or well done small perm mount antennas and you would have most of your bases covered at a reasonable price...and be totally legal (as long as you were a ham) without any concerns.

Why do folks feel they gotta chase down and then beat a dead horse issue like this?

If following the rules as you are told them is too much then amateur radio isn't for you. If looking for that "grey" area is important then amateur radio isn't for you. If acting like a 12 yr old who just learned to swear like a sailor is your idea of a good time then amateur radio isn't for you.

However if crystal clear comm that will help your fellow man in time of crisis and allow you to talk to friends and family over long distances sounds good then amateur radio might just be for you.

[shane4x4]

Just to piggy back on Lance's comments. I'm definitely not advocating that every off roader switch to HAM....but if more did, that would work better for a lot of people. Most organized groups are pretty sophisticated (the clubs around here are anyway). I think -especially for organized runs (ie the Summit) - that the benefits of HAM radio's over CB would be greatly amplified.

Hopefully we can do much more ham stuff at Summit '08

[KD7NAC_07FJ]

1leglance previously said:

wow that is some great info and way way way more patience to write it all than I have
In the end it I understand we would all like 1 radio that we could push button A for cb, B for family, C for Ham , D for marine and then maybe have it scan all those cool police and fire freq the rest of the time....
What I don't understand is why folks won't just accept that a $40 cb will work great and can be small, a $120 2m ham will be great and be small and a couple of mag mount antennas (you could choose to only use the 1 most common in your group at a time) or well done small perm mount antennas and you would have most of your bases covered at a reasonable price...and be totally legal (as long as you were a ham) without any concerns.

Why do folks feel they gotta chase down and then beat a dead horse issue like this?

If following the rules as you are told them is too much then amateur radio isn't for you. If looking for that "grey" area is important then amateur radio isn't for you. If acting like a 12 yr old who just learned to swear like a sailor is your idea of a good time then amateur radio isn't for you.

However if crystal clear comm that will help your fellow man in time of crisis and allow you to talk to friends and family over long distances sounds good then amateur radio might just be for you.

Well put

[Sean K.]

1leglance previously said:

If following the rules as you are told them is too much then amateur radio isn't for you. If looking for that "grey" area is important then amateur radio isn't for you. If acting like a 12 yr old who just learned to swear like a sailor is your idea of a good time then amateur radio isn't for you.

No offense Lance, but dude, were you potty trained at gun point?

Sean

[fjpenguin]

KD7NAC_07FJ previously said:

Part 97 - Subpart F has to do with testing requirements not operating regulations. Subpart D outlines the Technical Standards.

Thanks for the correction. I was trying to link to the full Part 97 docs, somehow Subpart F got added to my link.

KD7NAC_07FJ previously said:

I know the next thing you are going to post. What about a non-HAM using a modified ham rig to transmit on CB frequencies. Now you are back to using a non-type rated radio on bands it is not rated for.

I think the VFO vs. discrete channels explanation covers that one. I guess the intent was to create a very low entry point with CB (no messing around with frequencies or equipment, just click on a channel and go), and create some room for experimentation with the HAM stuff (but with regulation).

I haven't used CB (or HAM for that matter), but it's interesting to me that it allows for trash talk and misuse. Having a boat, I use VHF radios regularly (which don't require a license either) and people seem pretty well-behaved, even on the boat-to-boat channels. At least in the Chesapeake Bay anyway. Of course, the Coast Guard does monitor the channels.

You know, all this discussion is getting me interested in HAM operation. Who knows, maybe I'll be getting a license soon!

[KD7NAC_07FJ]

fjpenguin previously said:

but it's interesting to me that it allows for trash talk and misuse.

CB frequencies don't allow trash talk and misuse at all. In fact you used to need a license for CB and it was fairly well regulated until it was adopted by the trucking industry. Eventually the FCC abandoned it mostly due to budget cuts and the quality of the CB operators have degraded ever since.

In reality FCC regulations for all communications on any frequency call for, I forgot the exact term but its' something like "fair and decent communications". A bit dated but you can technically get fined for profanity on any frequency - technically. But the amount of resources required to manage that so staggeringly overwhelming you get citations like the FCC "abandoning" the CB band.

Pretty sad when you think people don't have enough self control to carry on a civil conversation without the F-word every other word.

And that is one of many reasons you will see HAMs so vehemently protecting and defending their air. We don't want that kind of environment, shouldn't have to listen to it, and the law supports it so we support the laws by policing ourselves. And believe me HAMs will turn people in to the FCC for violations.

[Sean K.]

Like I said, potty trained at gunpoint.

You guys are hilarious.

**** is no different a word that shoot, freakin, or dang. Someone, somewhere decided it was offensive and now, due to social pressure most folks agree.

Words are just words. I don't get offended if someone from another race calls me a cracker. Sorry, I just don't.

**EDIT*** I will say this though.....in America I completely agree that one should be able to say whatever they wish without exception. However, that doesn't mean you don't have the right to get your ass beat for it. But hey, that's just me.



Sean

[1leglance]

so sean to take your example to a logical point...
and of course not having to worry about being a gentleman or other socially accepted norms...
I would guess then at work you are ok with your boss calling you a d^psh*t , you are ok with a co-worker calling you a f*ckup when you make a mistake
and if you have kids or younger relatives around you don't mind if I stop by and tell them they are the cutest little c*m results of a man sticking his d&ck in a pu$$y that I ever saw.

Now really....did all that make my expresssion any clearer, did your perception of me and my intellect change at all?

I figure that when in public (and the airwaves are very public) then my rule should be that if I wouldn't say it in front of my grandmother and her quilting bee then it ought not to let it sally forth from my lips

Hey I get it....ham isn't for you. That is fine....rock buggy's aren't for me. However I have not gotten on your thread and talked about them negitively. If you don't have anything constructive to add to this disscussion why are you on this thread. You aren't interested in Ham radio since there are rules and ettiquite (sp?) so why are you posting repeatedly?

No I was not potty trained at gunpoint but I was brought up to listen and learn and follow the rules. I listened to my elders and learned from thier wisdom and experience. When my grandfather taught me that there were words for using amoungst the cattle and words used amoungest the ladies I got it pretty quick. I looked at someone who was a gentleman and wished to emulate that. I didn't use my new words to shock and show off that I could say these things. I also learned that a man can agree to disagree and that doesn't make him any less a man.
So why don't we agree that Ham radio isn't for you. I have a cb in my rig for when we will be on the trail together and that will work great.

Now if you don't mind I think I will invest energy into folks who ARE interested in ham radio instead of responding to detracting and distracting post.