I already have a Midland CB setup with the Bandi mount. Can I use the same coax and connectors to operate a portable hand-held HAM unit. Looks like I'll need a different antenna mounted to the Bandi, right?
I already have a Midland CB setup with the Bandi mount. Can I use the same coax and connectors to operate a portable hand-held HAM unit. Looks like I'll need a different antenna mounted to the Bandi, right?
Generally speaking, yes you need a different antenna and the Bandi may not accomodate it. But there are a lot of variables at work. Depending on the handheld HAM, you may not see as much benefit of an external antenna as you will with a CB.
In fact, if you are operating 2M and/or 440 (70cm), I don't think the trouble of an external antenna is worth it. Most handhelds will hit the local repeaters just fine. For those that they can't reach, an outside antenna won't be enough. You'll need more power for that.
For tail runs, convoys, Field Days, and the like, handhelds are fine as equipped.
If you are making the investment, there are some very nice "modular" 2M/440 units on the market from 50 to 70 Watts. The face plates are detachable and you can install the transceiver just about anywhere- under a seat, against the firewall, in the rear... The options are endless.
You will need a separate antenna and again, there are lots of choices. Larson and MFJ even make through-the-glass antennas that do not require drilling a hole. Most will argue that a vehicle grounded antenna is best, and they are right from a signal-to-noise ration and for achieving near perfect SWRs.
My advice is stick with the antenna the handheld comes with if you are fixed on getting a handheld. If you anticipate using the HAM frequently, get a mobile unit.
I am going to agree and disagree here at the same time...
A handheld is a great way to get into Amateur Radio but you will find that an external antenna will make a huge difference...just ask that guys that use a 5watt handheld and quality antenna to reach some serious distances...
The thru glass antennas are very functional or a good mag mount antenna will serve you well. Or you could do like I do and use a lip mount that goes on the back door up at the top.
Best of all you are getting into ham and you will love the fm quality.
As a side note I used a vx6 velcroed to the dash with an extended speaker mic and it worked great.
__________________
enjoy,
1leglance
KE7NKP
Disabled Explorers
Helping the handicapped independently access the backcountry www.disabledexplorers.com
Voodoo Blue driver, night nurse, cigar smoker & all around happy camper
Generally speaking, yes you need a different antenna and the Bandi may not accomodate it. But there are a lot of variables at work. Depending on the handheld HAM, you may not see as much benefit of an external antenna as you will with a CB.
In fact, if you are operating 2M and/or 440 (70cm), I don't think the trouble of an external antenna is worth it. Most handhelds will hit the local repeaters just fine. For those that they can't reach, an outside antenna won't be enough. You'll need more power for that.
My advice is stick with the antenna the handheld comes with if you are fixed on getting a handheld. Hope this helps.
I don't mean any disrespect, but that information would only help IF it were accurate.
As an Amateur Extra for 15 years, I can tell you that you can greatly extent the range of a handheld radio by using a properly installed and matched external antenna. The antenna that comes on most all handheld tranceivers is, at best, zero gain. For every 3 db of antenna gain, you double the effective relative output power of the radio. So, if you hook up an external antenna with 3db of gain (most are available with more gain), your 5 watt handheld radio will have an effective radiation of 10 watts - definitely more range if needed in a remote area. In addition, a handheld's antenna has it's radiation pattern limited by the steel shell of the cabin - something an external antenna avoids almost completely.
A more powerful mobile radio (which requires an external antenna) is a great idea if you want a dedicated rig in your vehicle. But you'll be able to use the same external antenna for the mobile that you hooked up for your handheld, so the upgrade later is easier, too.
While the Bandi mount can be used for a ham antenna mount, it does not provide a very good ground for higher power radios (remember a CB is 4 watts output, while most mobile ham radios are 40 watts plus). I'd suggest something on the roof, or a rear door lip mount to allow the antenna to extend higher up over the roofline of the vehicle...
Hope that helps, too
__________________
" I'm not aware of too many things, but I know what I know, if you know what I mean..."
"Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... that way when you do criticize them, you're a mile away, and you have their shoes..."
I am going to agree and disagree here at the same time...
A handheld is a great way to get into Amateur Radio but you will find that an external antenna will make a huge difference...just ask that guys that use a 5watt handheld and quality antenna to reach some serious distances...
i am going to back up lance, i have been a HAM for a few years now (so still kinda new) but I got a VX-7R HT and with the antenna that comes with it (a.k.a. RubberDuck) it was VERY poor at hitting the repeaters along the mountain range around here, it was fine for simplex that was in the nearby area, so i got a better antenna, this one Diamond SRH77CA and then i could hit all the repeaters quite well, but not when i was in my FJ, i would still have issues off and on, your signal effectiveness drops A LOT inside a vehicle, so i mounted another antenna, this one Diamond NR770HB on the bandi mount (I had to drill the bandimount hole a little bigger than what it comes with for the HAM antenna mount) and ran the cable into the interior and now i mount my HT by my e-brake with some heavy duty velcro. Now i get VERY good reception and can hit the repeaters with great effectiveness, simplex is also great too
NOW,
while that setup is about as good as a mobile HT setup can get i think, it will be much better when i get my mobile rig, this one: Kenwood D710
so, in my experience, each step that i took above i gained a VERY noticable increase in performance
Wow, I better speak up here too for the record. I have been a HAM for 12 years now and into all forms of communication and monitoring for over 28 years including building many "home brew" antennas and studying radio wave propagation since I was 10 years old.
A properly installed and matched external antenna on your vehicle will make a huge difference in both receiving and transmitting for all types of communications regardless of the radio type: CB, FRS, HAM, CELL, etc...
BUT if you don't want to take our words for it, go and get one of the books at the following, VERY TRUSTED IN THE AMATEUR RADIO COMMUNITY, link if you want to fully understand why an external antenna is way better: ARRLWeb: ARRL Product Catalog
I have ran mobile 2m/70cm antennas on my off-road SUVs’ now for over 10 years and as for an antennas I like and use both the Comet SBB5 and the Diamond NR770-HA. Both are recommended by the manufacturers for off-road use and come with a fold over feature where you can pull up on the antenna then lay it down flat to gain clearance.
My best piece of advice to all non-licensed aspiring ham off roaders that read this is to not rush into it, do your research, talk to experienced off road hams to see what works and doesn't work then just go buy a radio and antenna and get the dang thing installed with or without a license. YOU CANNOT LEGALLY TRANSMIT ON IT UNTIL YOU ARE LICENSED but it is perfectly fine to monitor it. Just unplug the PTT mike and toss it in your glove box until you are licensed or there is some sort of extreme life threatening emergency and there are no other forms of communicating. If you decide to transmit on it without being licensed, emergency or not, you will be subject to disciplinary action from the FCC including fines and being banned from being able to get licensed and that's something I'm sure nobody here would want.
Now I'm sure that there will be responses to this post suggesting otherwise but they should understand that most people here that talk of becoming a ham do just that, talk, talk, talk! Having that cool radio in your rig and listening to all the action on the local repeaters, nets, contests, etc... will surely motivate them to get a move on and take the simple test to start using it. At least that worked for me...
__________________
Steven
KF6LYF
You can check out my TT rig here: <<Click Here!>>
Welcome to ameature radio! I think my original post (response) and intent were missed by most and I feel a need to clarify. I assumed I had inserted enough caveats in my response but clearly that is not the case.
By virtue of your question I assumed you are new to HAM. I did not think you were looking for a scientific discussion about wave propagation, shielding, or especially a legal lecture about what fines and penalties would be if you transmit without a license. So, I kept it real simple.
Handhelds are fine for general use. I disagree that they are "...great way to get into Amateur Radio." They are small, cumbersome, and confusing if you do not already understand how 2m works (I will focus on 2M and leave 70cm and all other bands out of the discussion). They have small screens and multi-function buttons that will drive you crazy if you are a new HAM. It is difficult enough to work a full-size mobile and/or base station, let alone the small interface of a handheld, especially if you are mobile (pun intended).
To your question about coax, bandi, etc., again, based on your question, I did not feel it appropriate to lecture you about the modest gains of external antenna, folding antennas, grounding, gain, effective radiation, etc. Again, this would be moot (because of the lack of context) for a new HAM and to try and explain it all here would require many pages of text, like a book... BTW, books are great, there are some fine ones mentioned here. Visiting your local HAM shop, attending a field day, meeting the local HAM club(s) are all great ways to get into the hobby.
As to my comment about handhelds, once again I tried to keep it simple. Handhelds at 5W do not reach the distances of 50W+ mobiles or base units with or without external antennas. If they did, manufacturer's would not offer the larger, more powerful units. Radio theory notwithstanding, 50 is greater than 5 (and 10).
Keeping it simple, I offered you may consider a mobile/base unit if you are getting into HAM full scale. Why spend the money twice? You need to visit a local HAM shop, play around with the buttons and knobs and see what feels right to you. If a handheld does it for you and you want to go to the trouble of an external antenna, great!
Most of the posts here about antenna performance, grounding, balancing, etc. are accurate, but again, without context and you being new (presumably) I tried to keep it simple. You will want to learn this stuff hands-on with some good help (books, friends, trial and error). It's just one man's opinion but I did not proffer that an external antenna would not perform better, just that the modest gains did warrant the effort (see original post).
There is a lot to learn and most HAMs are ready and willing to help. Most are passionate about the hobby and pride themselves on their technical knowledge of the hobby, others not so much. Sometimes you have to separate the wheat from the chaff. For example:
Quote:
FJ-Piper previously said:
...If you decide to transmit on it without being licensed, emergency or not, you will be subject to disciplinary action from the FCC including fines and being banned from being able to get licensed and that's something I'm sure nobody here would want.
Since we are being precise here, this isn't accurate. The operation of an unlicensed broadcast station is a violation of Section 301 of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended. You can find the language on the FCC's homepage and relevant excerpts on popular HAM sites.
Quote:
FJ-Piper previously said:
...Now I'm sure that there will be responses to this post suggesting otherwise but they should understand that most people here that talk of becoming a ham do just that, talk, talk, talk! Having that cool radio in your rig and listening to all the action on the local repeaters, nets, contests, etc...
Not my experience on this forum.
Here's an idea, let's start a thread on how-to-become a licensed HAM, recommendations for gear, references, web sites, and other resources! Now that would be helpful!
At the end of the day, buy a radio, get licensed, learn the theory, and put together a set-up that works for your applications, interests, and budget (you may do so in any order you wish). There are plenty of folks willing to help. Best of luck to you.
/ WPOK492 
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