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Old 03-19-2007, 01:34 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Re: Lessons about CV axle failure

Quote:
4RnrJ previously said: View Post
I took from it that he was already up the hill and saw the guy do this who was halfway up the hill. I'd bet he was too far away to fix the situation.

But yeah, his spotter (if he had one) should've helped him prevent it.
Unless his spotter did not know or was unaware of such consequences. Some spotters get overly enthusiastic once they hear the engine roar. Those are the dangerous ones.

Drivers too can be overly eager or just blow off spotters anyways. Ultimately it is drivers responsibility!

Not saying that is what happened, but just a possibility. Obviously, I was not there! Good lessons on this thread though
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Last edited by fivestar13 : 03-19-2007 at 02:06 PM. Reason: caveat to spotter/driver errors
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Old 03-19-2007, 01:42 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Re: Lessons about CV axle failure

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Thanks Valk...

Damn... So with the tulip setup, the front diff.
would need to be opened up in order to remove
the c-clips and axle ?... Or do they pull out of
the diff, and the c-clips are for the outer CV
joint ?...
Here it is from memory- forgive me if I forgot something:
1. Chock the rear wheels.
2. If you are in a precarious position, have another vehicle attach a winch line or tighten up a strap to secure the vehicle.
4. Break loose the lugs while the tire is on the ground. This will also give you the opportunity to hunt down the wheel lock key before the vehicle is teetering on a jack.
4. Jack up vehicle. This is important- I forgot to mention that this guy had a snazzy new All- Pro styled bumper... which has no recovery points or places to stab with a high-lift. He had the factory rock rails, which flexed under the weight but held. I also learned that you have to open the driver's door and then jack it up, other wise the high lift will lean into the door skin.
4. Remove the wheel & tire, lay tire down under front crossmember just in case.
5. Remove the swaybar nut and push the swaybar link out of the spindle.
6. Remove the two lower ball joint bolts.
7. If the knuckle doesn't pop off the lower control arm, simply insert a long pry bar underneath the upper control arm, wedge it into the spring and press up.
8. With the knuckle free, take a couple of long screwdrivers/prybars and wedge them between the inside of the tulip joint and the differential. Be careful of the dust shield back there. One quick push should be enough to compress the C clip and pop the CV out of the diff.... If it gets hard, you can have someone gently pull on the rotor to add pressure, but be careful not to overextend the tulip joint and separate it.
9. Examine the diff seal for damage, replace if necessary.
10. Using a small, sharp screwdriver, pop off the hub dust cover.
11. Straighten out & remove the cotter pin, remove the safety cage and then remove the axle nut using a 35mm hub socket.
12. Lightly tab on the outer axle shaft and push it through the hub. The CV axle will now be out.
13. Look at the CV axle and make sure the C clip is still attached in it's entirety. If it is broken or missing, then you will have to jack up the other side, remove the skid plate, drain the gear oil and have someone rotate the driveshaft as you search for and pick out the pieces using a magnetic pick-up via the drain hole. *Before draining the diff, crack open the fill plug so you know you will be able to fill it back up!
14. On the new CV, make sure the C clip is attached and the opening points down, as well as make sure it has a dust shield- sometimes aftermarket ones don't, so you have to re-use yours.
15. Insert the outer stub through the hub, and tighten down the axle nut.
16. Position the inner stub (with the dust shield installed) into the hole in the diff, being careful not to tear up the seal. Make sure the splines are aligned.
17. This take coordination: holding the stub in place with one hand , pull the knuckle assembly back, allowing the tulip joint to stretch a bit. Then, using the hanging assembly like a pendulum, pop the CV into the diff. Once it gets started, grab the rotor at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock and pull it back gently then smack it in- it make take two or three whacks to seat it- you will know when it does.
18. Position the knuckle over the lower control arm to reseat it. You may have to insert a pry bar above the upper control arm, jam it into the spring and pry down to make them meet. You will find that if you try to use a bottle jack or something to lift the LCA up to the knuckle, you will only succeed in jacking the vehicle further up and possibly causing a dangerous situation.
19, with locktite on the lower ball joint bolts, thread them in the holes and tighten to spec. I didn't know what it was, so I put them at 60#... the Tacoma is 58# (37# on new ones under SSC 50J) and it has 4 bolts, the FJC has two, so I figured better safe than sorry.
20. Insert the swaybar link into the knuckle and tighten. You may have to do this when you lower it.
21. Stick the wheel back on and run the lugnuts down.
22. lower the vehicle to the ground and finish torquing the lugnuts down to about 80-85#.
23. Torque the axle nut down- I didn't know so I used 175#, which is what a Tacoma takes. Then replace the cage nut, cotter pin and dust cover.
23. If you lost any significant amount gear oil, top it off.

I think that's it. For a normal failure of a joint, this should be about a 15-20 minute job with some experience. Practice it a couple of times in your driveway one afternoon and get proficient (and confident).

In the case I had Saturday, the joint didn't fail, the shaft did, just inside the diff. Had we decided to swap a CV in there, we would have had to pull the other CV, pull the skid plate, disconnect the driveshaft drain and drop the diff- requiring the elusive 12mm allen socket and a lot of labor. The the diff would have to be split apart and the stub pulled out from the inside. Then we would have sealed it with FIPG, torqued the diff back together, reinstall and finish up... would have added another 1-1.5 hours to the deal... since he had a trailer, it was decided just to disassemble the outer shaft and use it in the hub to support the bearing... that fix was as good as swapping in a new shaft, since the diff was plugged and not leaking by the broken piece.

Clearer?
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Last edited by Valkyrie : 03-19-2007 at 01:53 PM.
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Old 03-19-2007, 01:52 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Re: Lessons about CV axle failure

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Maybe this is an obvious question, but why didn't you just stop him and avoid the mess all together? Maybe it happened too fast, maybe you weren't his spotter, maybe he didn't want a spotter.....


Just wondering.

Sean
I would have had I been able to...

As I said, I was done with the climb, probably almost 150 yards above him. I much rather would have stopped him rather than lose about two hours of my wheeling time wrenching on someone else's junk waiting on a cut off wheel. Perhaps my chuckling leads some to believe that I was laughing at him hoping for him to break, when actually I was simply chuckling to myself at the whole situation and knowing I was gonna be going to work.

His spotter, who was experienced, was positioned correctly (on the higher ledge), and was not telling him to gun it... I saw the spotter try to wave him off just before the axle broke, but it only took a few quick bounces.

Either way, a spotter does not guarantee you anything, furthermore a spotter is not to blame for what was clearly driver error (bouncing).

I did highlight some ways of "avoiding this mess", but also wanted to encourage others to take responsibility to be able to recover from it. Anyone who wheels will break something, sometime.
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Last edited by Valkyrie : 03-19-2007 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 03-19-2007, 01:53 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Re: Lessons about CV axle failure

found this posted in another thread. pretty much what valk is saying, but with pretty pics..
Toyota Maintenance: CV Axle Replacement on 3rd Generation 4Runners and Tacomas


also, for FJC toyota part numbers
43430-60060 cv shaft
90311-47012 left side axle seal
90311-47013 right side axle seal
04427-60080 cv boot kit (not required, but nice to have)
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Old 03-19-2007, 01:56 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Re: Lessons about CV axle failure

Thanks for the heads up and the good info Valkyrie!
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Old 03-19-2007, 02:09 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Re: Lessons about CV axle failure

This is all very cool since this seems to be the most likely 'Big' failure for our beloved FJC's on the trail. (besides a trashed rear lower link) Thanks for the heads up on how to cope, Valk.

I can already see the look on my GF's face when I tell her "This money is dearly needed for proper off-road self-suffiency"
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Old 03-19-2007, 02:09 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Re: Lessons about CV axle failure

EXCELLENT post, Valkyrie! This is something I have not had to deal with but need to know about. Especially since we will be heading out across 2000+ miles of our country come July Like a good boy scout, BE PREPARED.
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Old 03-19-2007, 02:19 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Re: Lessons about CV axle failure

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and fortunately someone took pity on me and brought me a cold one.
Your welcome!
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Old 03-19-2007, 02:31 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Re: Lessons about CV axle failure

Ok, I've got some questions. First some background. I'm closing in on 60 and I've done things like replace transmissions, rear ends, clutches, pistons, rings, manifolds, brakes, axles and other various and assorted items BUT this was done to cars, trucks, tractors that were made in the 70's and before. I've never jacked with a CV joint, never heard of a tulip thingy or a beerfield one either. We only do what I'd call gentle off roading compared to what you guys do.
Ok, Ok the questions. What would be the approximate cost of buying all those extra parts?
Assuming that we don't tear up a cv joint what might be the next most breakable part when running the bunny slopes?
Are wussies like me in the vast minority here?
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Old 03-19-2007, 02:35 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Re: Lessons about CV axle failure

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Your welcome!
Couldn't have done it with out you.
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