Complete lift listing and comparison, they're all here! - Page 4

bandi · 06-15-2006, 08:40 AM

I know I had seen a lift that utilized Spaces on top of the front shocks with new longer studs to bolt it back in up top... This way you are not preloading the springs... But I have not been able to locate it again now that I am in the market for them...

Revtek has there installed by compressing (preloading) the front springs and inserting the spaces... The one I want has the spaces on top of the shock altogether...

ANY IDEAS

Brand

....

I have been searching with no luck... Thanks
Much...

[edit] Maybe this is the one... Rough Country

Rough Country has developed a New 3" suspension for the highly anticipated and
capable Toyota FJ Cruiser. This 3" suspension lift will consist of front strut spacers
with rear coil springs and shocks. It is a Complete Bolt-On lift kit with no strut
compressor required for installation.

Valkyrie · 06-15-2006, 12:42 PM

It's commonly called a top-loader or top-loading spacer. The theory is, that by not pre-compressing the coils like coilspacers do, you don't f**k up the ride like coil spacers do, and you magically get lift with the factory ride.

The cheaper and 'easier' the lift appears should make the warning flags go higher. If you are only trying to achieve a "look" you might get by, but if you wheel it at all toploaders are notorious for overextending and killing BJ's, as well as rubbing the UCA on the springs.

bandi · 06-15-2006, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Valkyrie previously said:

but if you wheel it at all toploaders are notorious for overextending and killing BJ's, as well as rubbing the UCA on the springs.

But, by getting a Coil over lift, I am doing the same thing to the BJ's and the UCA... Unless I get a newer designed UCA too with either type kit...

[edit] My idea is to get better ride height without destroying the fenders with the bigger tires, Coilovers with give more travel, that upward and downward, which in thery stuff the front tires in the wheelwell the same as before the lift, which I dont' want...

Valkyrie · 06-15-2006, 01:25 PM

Well, it won't be as much pressure with a C/O as with a toploader, but UCA's are a good idea for your setup.

More travel, yes, but they still won't move up past the bumps unless you alter or remove them... so then tire size itself becomes the real issue, not the coilovers. What tire size are you trying to fit?

bandi · 06-15-2006, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Valkyrie previously said:

Well, it won't be as much pressure with a C/O as with a toploader, but UCA's are a good idea for your setup.

More travel, yes, but they still won't move up past the bumps unless you alter or remove them... so then tire size itself becomes the real issue, not the coilovers. What tire size are you trying to fit?

I don't see how the C/O compared to the TopLoader is any different on the BJ's if the lift is the same... Unless you mean, that with they C/O's addition upward travel lessens the stress on the BJ's at points of use.. That I understand then...

34x10.5x17 TSL LTB Interco... I will trim and weld the body mount and weld it closed if it is needed during fitment...

I need to weld up my own skids for underneath... I beat the hell out of the OME's at Rausch Creek last week...

It will come down to price verses usefulness when I make my decission... Like the cost for the TLDR setups are too expensive to me compared to the C/O's... So I will go with the C/O if the prices stays that way...

Valkyrie · 06-15-2006, 02:39 PM

What I've been trying to say is that you are not going to get any more upward travel no matter what lift you use... upward travel is limitied by the bumpstops.

A 3" top load spacer will be ~1.5" thick (if anyone is crazy enough to make that). You are pushing everything in your suspension geometery down 1.5". At full droop your CV's, ball joints, and tie rods will be 1.5" past their designed limit. they WILL fail. I even know of cases where the inner tripod joint has popped out under full extension.

It may also be a combination of preload and top load spacers, but I doubt it since they proudly proclaim there is no spring compressor required... which now make me wonder how they expect longer studs to be installed

The general rule or top-load spacers is no thicker than 1/2" or you will run the very real risk of hyperextending the inner tripod joints of your axles. A TL spacer just pushes the coil/shock assembly down throwing the OE suspension geometry off....the thicker the spacer the farther off it gets. Preload spacers push the coil down but leave the shock in OE position maintaining stock geometry.

Putting top load spacers in is the *cheap* way to get lilft, but it will only cost you more in the long run.

My advice: Save your money and do it right the first time. You will be better off getting a new set of springs or buying a set quality coilovers... much less alignment hassles as well.

83greentoy · 06-15-2006, 02:45 PM

I installed the All-pro with the 12-way and rear spacers with walker evans all the around. the ride is great and the front end no longer dives in braking as it did stock.

bandi · 06-15-2006, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Valkyrie previously said:

What I've been trying to say is that you are not going to get any more upward travel no matter what lift you use... upward travel is limitied by the bumpstops.

A 3" top load spacer will be ~1.5" thick (if anyone is crazy enough to make that). You are pushing everything in your suspension geometery down 1.5". At full droop your CV's, ball joints, and tie rods will be 1.5" past their designed limit. they WILL fail. I even know of cases where the inner tripod joint has popped out under full extension.

It may also be a combination of preload and top load spacers, but I doubt it since they proudly proclaim there is no spring compressor required... which now make me wonder how they expect longer studs to be installed

The general rule or top-load spacers is no thicker than 1/2" or you will run the very real risk of hyperextending the inner tripod joints of your axles. A TL spacer just pushes the coil/shock assembly down throwing the OE suspension geometry off....the thicker the spacer the farther off it gets. Preload spacers push the coil down but leave the shock in OE position maintaining stock geometry.

Putting top load spacers in is the *cheap* way to get lilft, but it will only cost you more in the long run.

My advice: Save your money and do it right the first time. You will be better off getting a new set of springs or buying a set quality coilovers... much less alignment hassles as well.

Ahh... OK... A 3" lift with a top load spacer would have a spacer approx. 1-1/2" thick... Got that then... That went right past me...

Now, what you are saying is the C/O system, such as DrD, leave the UCA and LCA and axles in the same popsition/location, but somehow they lift the vehicle 3" to 3-1/2" up... without overextending the joints, axles UCA/LCA...

I have been around/owned Dodge Solid Axles/Fords TTB... with 6" lifts and lots of other mods... My last toyota, 88 4runner, had torsion bars, and all I did was crank em, up 2-1/2" at the wheel....

So what I am saying, This suspension is new to me... and I may be a little dense, or just not reading you right... but 3" (1-1/2" spacers) lift spacer toploaded, or 3" lift via C/O equals 3" lift either way, and without swapping out the UCA and LCA... the Angles will be the same for the same amount of lift...

Unless, the difference is that the C/O will not drup/hang downward as much due to spring tension...

Just trying to learn here...

As far as upward travel, I can always limit but swapping out for biger bumps...

Valkyrie · 06-15-2006, 05:31 PM

You keep thinking UP, but the problem is DOWN, as in down travel.

Large TL spacers will cause the UCA to press the tire down too far.. picture someone dipping their toe in a pool with one leg bent and the other streeeetching to stick the toe in.

That long "stretch" is the strut & coil being forced down. This forces the UCA into a position like this: / , thus putting the LBJ it it's limit and usually blowing out the smaller UBJ. The angle of the UCA also causes it to hit the spring, and will occasionally pull the tulip joint of the CV apart.

That is why when you ask anyone who understands wheeling IFS they will tell you that spacers suck... and TL's are the worst.

And swapping to bigger bumps will only limit your uptravel, which is uneccesary. In fact, a very common trick among IFS wheelers is to trim the bumps to about 1/4", or comlete removal for the daring.

Here's a pic to illustrate bumpstop removal and how it affects UPtravel, not DOWNtravel:

Here's a pic to illustrate bumpstop trimming and how it affects UPtravel, not DOWNtravel:

Generally on Toyota's, the front of the LCA will impact the front bump first, which is why it is removed and the rear one is just trimmed.... not to get to far off track.

So this is a much different setup than your full-size, "cram some blocks & AAL's" trucks. It is a little more complicated than just cranking t-bars also, which I know made it ride like ass and f**d up your alignment... Spacers for the top BJ would have made that rig much better.

Toploaders over .5" will be very, very difficult to align back to spec.

bandi · 06-15-2006, 07:49 PM

So, Would you recomend the All-Pro front and rear setup... ??? I couple of more buck would be worth the better ride on the trail without the fade i always hadwith my other rigs...

Although, I still do not understand the difference between 3" topspacer lift and 3" C/O lift as far as control arm angles (they both are 3" inches of lift. hence same angles on the Control arms)... ???

Is it the truck can not hadle the actual 3"'s of lift, and with the C/O you have the option to keep it dialed in at less...

Arrg... I call it a night... well, I am working all night tonight... Thanks For all your help... I have got some useful info thru this dicussion !!!