ToyTec OME 885 Kit with Stock Bilsteins – Problem???

NRAFJ · 04-25-2008, 08:58 PM

Sorry for such a long post, but this is fairly complex.

Got the OME 885/ToyTec springs installed today, which were purchased as a kit from ToyTec.

Rear - No problems

Front ...When I arrived I was told that the FJ wasn't back from the alignment shop yet (a local Dodge dealer) and that they were having a very difficult time with it. The installation tech came back and said he had had a very hard time with the install to start with. Something about having to cut one of his tools (I assume the coil compressor) off with a torch when it got stuck/shifted during compression. ...but he finally got the front springs/spacers on. However, he was then fairly emphatic that the 885's were too stiff to be used with the stock Bilsteins and that the front Bilsteins were now over extended in his opinion. More on this further down.

Then they hit me with the really bad news...that it was going to be mechanically impossible to properly align my wheels/tires with this lift installed. The alignment shop told them that there wasn't enough camber adjustment to account for the impact of the lift. They said I could live with it, but I would go through a set of tires every year given that the camber was out so bad. They handed me a sheet which I don't really know how to read (I have attached it as an image).

So I immediately called Kirk @ ToyTec who sold me the springs. He said that there are lots of shops all around the country who have successfully aligned FJ's with this kit and that it was extremely difficult to advise on my particular situation over the phone, but offered to call the shop while I was there and conference with them, which we did. In the conference, Kirk again explained to the local shop his positive experience with the kit and offered to have the mechanical tech guru (I think he said the guy was the owner of ToyTec??) call my shop back. The call came after about 20 minutes. Whoever it was from ToyTec ran over the alignment numbers with the local shop guys and quickly concluded...drum roll...that there actually may not be a problem!

IF ANYONE OUT THERE KNOWS HOW TO READ ONE OF THESE ALIGNMENT SHEETS, PLEASE OFFER YOUR OPINION. (not knowing anything...to me it seems like camber is actually within spec)

The unaccounted for variable seems to be front weight. When I bought from ToyTec I explained to Kirk that I had a RA Stealth/Titan on order and would eventually add a winch (total ~ 200lbs.)...and thus the recommendation for 885's. The local installation shop knows this (they had already agreed to accept shipment of the bumper and install it when it comes). ToyTec indicates that the additional weight will bring the front back down such that an alignment with the bumper/winch will allow more camber adjustment. And, that the additional front weight will compress the 885's enough that the Bilsteins should not be over extended.

So...it seems to drive fine. Stiff in the front, but that's exactly what I expected without the bumper/winch. And I can't detect any alignment issues simply by looking at the tires or during driving. I love the look and the extra clearance is exactly what I wanted.

...so...if you've actually read all of this and have some ideas/input/questions, please fire away. Am I going to be OK after adding 200lbs. to the front?

THANKS!

layonnn · 04-25-2008, 09:15 PM

Aftermarket Upper control arms allow you to adjust more.

rotorhed1 · 04-25-2008, 09:21 PM

A while back I did a similar kit from ToyTec.

When I went to get it aligned they told me sort of the same thing. They ran out of adjustment before getting it perfect. The guy seemed to know his stuff. He stated that it was really close and that the slight camber wouldn't be enough to wear the tires. I've got about 5000 miles since and I haven't seen any abnormal wear.

I don't recall what the final numbers were on mine to compare, sorry.

If it does cause wear on your tires, there are aftermarket control arms to correct things. Ya, I know, more $

rotorhed1 · 04-25-2008, 09:26 PM

Okay after looking at the sheet they gave you it looks like only the caster is out? That shouldn't cause tire wear. With less caster it may not track as well going down straight roads. Maybe a bit of wandering. Does it drive okay?

NRAFJ · 04-25-2008, 09:36 PM

Quote:

rotorhed1 previously said:

Okay after looking at the sheet they gave you it looks like only the caster is out? That shouldn't cause tire wear. With less caster it may not track as well going down straight roads. Maybe a bit of wandering. Does it drive okay?

I haven't had it on an interstate yet, but it seems to drive fine in the ~10 miles I've driven thus far.

...CASTOR - I didn't hear the second conversation between ToyTec and my local shop, but the local shop indicated that either ToyTec or the alignment shop said there is no caster adjustment on the FJ. I remember them telling me this because I'm the one who put the little line next to the "caster" heading. Is that plausible? No caster adjustment?

THANKS!

Edit...and you're exactly right. The CASTOR "actuals" are red and seem to be the only thing on this sheet that indicates out of spec.

Brock · 04-26-2008, 07:22 AM

dude....I have the medium ToyTec OME front coil overs with their 1/2" billet top plate....and the medium OME rear coils as well. My shop had no problem installing back or front setup...and then aligned vehicle to get rid of the positive camber induced from larger tires and a lift.

someone there does not know what he is doing... I have a sheet somewhere that has recommended alignment settings that OME or RevTek or someone on IH8MUD or here put together after a successful alignment.

The caster can be fixed by getting the new UCA from AllPro or one of the others out there....but not everyone experiences high speed wandering. I have not had a problem yet and have not upgraded either though I will by end of summer.

I also used the stock oem struts up front and shocks in rear without any issues and ToyTec told me only thing it would cost me is a couple inches of wheel travel in the rear....and when it is time to replace them I can easily just add some OME or others in their place.

NRAFJ · 04-26-2008, 07:36 AM

Thanks for the replies thus far. So additional camber adjustment can be gained via aftermarket control arms. I'll have to look into it. Not sure what else aftermarket control arms do for you beyond providing this adjustment.

I'm also going to call the alignment shop today to find out for sure if .4deg. and .1deg is really considered a problem. According to their own sheet (see earlier attachment), it's within spec.

AND...as you guys have pointed out, caster shouldn't create tire wear issues, but maybe some tracking issues. I'll get it on the interstate today and test it. ...Can anyone confirm whether or not caster is adjustable on the FJ?

**FloJo** · 04-26-2008, 08:16 AM

i'm not completely positive on this but i think the lower cam essentrics on the lower control arm is used to adjust camber and caster. depending on how the LCA is adjusted, the pivot point of the tire is either fore, inline, or aft of the upper ball joint. it's supposedly a fine art to align since any change you do to the essentrics will also alter the toe-in. a member on here who goes by "Tractorlegend" helped me out with my alignment issues. take a look at your essentrics (you'll have to remove the front bling plate to see them) and see if your within the tick marks. this will let you know if they are maxed out or not. from the factory, they should be fairly close to center. alignment talk is still a foreign language to me, so take my words with a grain of salt.

NRAFJ · 04-26-2008, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Brock previously said:

dude....I have the medium ToyTec OME front coil overs with their 1/2" billet top plate....and the medium OME rear coils as well. My shop had no problem installing back or front setup...and then aligned vehicle to get rid of the positive camber induced from larger tires and a lift.

Thanks Brock! Can I ask what kind of weight you have up front? I'm running right now with none and wouldn't want to keep it that way. It's tolerable but stiff. Gotta take speed bumps very slow...which I think the effect of speed bumps is exaggerated by the front Bilstein's being stretched.

Also, got it out more today and I can't really tell if there's a tracking problem because it seems to be pulling right. Of course, I never realized how hard it was to find a flat, straight road in Raleigh...but I'm 70% sure it's pulling. From what I've read, the right side having less positive castor would theoretically make it pull right. Attaching the alignment image again in case anyone else wants to take a shot a deciphering it for me.

THANKS!

cruzin · 04-27-2008, 11:20 AM

Sounds to like you need to consider a different alignment shop..(NOT DODGE) and Not rip on kirk cause he couldn't align your truck over the phone.....factory bilstien is the exact same length as the after market struts..Well half inch shorter due to were the bushings mount. I have also heard the caster isn't adjustable. Sounds like these DODGE guys don't know Toyota.. I worked with kirk at 4wp for 2yrs And am very familiar with the toy tec set ups ... And for how many people have that same set up with no problems.. You might want to consider a different shop next time..