I have a 2007 with the E-locker, still good but has the 60-65 mph howl....drives me insane sometimes.:surprise Go over 70 and it goes away.:| I'm trying to decide what to do when spring gets here.
I have 201k on my 07. Diff makes to moan, and now you can hear it at low speed too (sub 10mph). I'll head down to east coast gear supply sometime this year.
The 8.2 was an upgrade and the number of failures is far less. But to upgrade the 07-09 to the later 8.2, you need lots of parts, it's not just a simple drop in. If you need a new ring and pinion for the 07, new gears are probably the cheaper and easier way to go.
Thats good info, but my interest lies in a slightly different direction.
Im trying to compare the '10+ E lockers vs. the '10+ non E lockers for my comparisons.
I hope that makes sense.
There are opinionated people out ther who believe the E locker by design was much weaker than the non E locker and Im trying to validate that.
As for you guys having the howl at certain rpm's - I know SOME of that can be eliminated by going away from the crush sleeve type pinion and gong to a straight sleeve/shims setup.
Sometimes what happens is the crush sleeve gets deflected some and that affects the pinion depth and preload.
We had lots of problems on our s2000 race car until we switched to the shim type.
The 8.2" on the 10+ solved the FJC diff problems. The e-locker and non e-locker versions are equally as strong and there is no great number of failure issues on either. Just stay away from the 8" and you should be good.
IMHO the failure of the 8" is due more to operator malfunction, users beating them up, than anything else... I, personally, have never heard of anyone in the 2 FJ clubs that i help manage ( over 1000 members total , in 2 countries ) that blew a diff that wasn't due to the drivers fault ( engaging the locker while wheels are turning in the air, spinning wheels, flooring it, ect ) So i wouldn't go all paranoid on this.
What are the "supposed" weakness of the elocker vs non-elocker version ?
There is a "weakness" and i'm not sure i would call it that with the elocker, in the fact that the housing is aluminum and it makes contact with steel parts around causing it to corrode prematurely, but this can be fixed by taking it off and painting the back plate with zinc paint to stop corrosion. Also in cold weather i strongly suggest that you do the scuba mod , because if water gets in and freezes, the locker housing will crack. Look at the thread i made on taking care of your locker.
But everything is relative and depends on the type of wheeling that you are doing also. If you really want to be sure everything will be ok, slap on a Rock Assault or Dana 60 on there, problem solved.
IMHO the failure of the 8" is due more to operator malfunction, users beating them up, than anything else... I, personally, have never heard of anyone in the 2 FJ clubs that i help manage ( over 1000 members total , in 2 countries ) that blew a diff that wasn't due to the drivers fault ( engaging the locker while wheels are turning in the air, spinning wheels, flooring it, ect ) So i wouldn't go all paranoid on this.
I will say that I've only been offroading twice in my '07, and those were very easy trails. My rear diff started howling in December, and the truck is currently with the folks at Southeast Overland getting new gears put in because they were destroyed.
From what I understand (which isn't much) about the newer diff. is that is has more beef in the carrier bearing area than the 8.0. The pinion angle is higher and that is supposed to reduce deflection during hard use. If you want to talk to someone that is an expert on Toyotas... Then talk to Chase at East Coast Gear Supply (919) 672-2705. I believe they claim to be the largest Toyota differential builders in the US.
Good luck!
These are the quotes from Just Differentials that I was referring to in the above post. This info is from 2013 so it isn't exactly hot off the presses. Is it gospel? Nah, but is it probably a pretty good observation from some pretty knowledgeable people? I think so.
"We have yet to hear of any 8.2" rear end failures"
"The 2009 & Older FJ Cruisers, 4runners, and Prado 120 utilize the 8” which dates back to 1979, and was originally used in 3000 lb mini trucks with 80 Horsepower and 27” tires. Late model modified Toyotas such as FJ Cruiser run at double the weight, triple the horsepower, and much larger tires to top it off. For this reason there have been lots of failures, enough so that Toyota upgraded the rear to the 8.2” on the 2010 & Newer models. It may seem like a small upgrade but there are significant improvements such as beefier casting, larger bearings, larger pinion diameter, larger ring gear diameter, more tooth contact, and a beefier 12 bolt diff case."
Oh that is just fantastic.... First you show me that you guys get a better radiator than US vehicles, then you show us that you get a stronger rear diff.... What is next? You will probably tell us something like you can get a diesel engine in the FJ or Tacoma.... Wait... You can.... What the heck?? Thats it... I going to go kick something.... Where's the Cat? > Just kidding....
LOL - no diesel in the FJ & no Tacoma. We have real pickups - the mighty HiLux & LC70 pickups (both obviously with diesel options) - remember those trucks are work trucks - there aint no luxury options on them.
If it makes you feel better, diesel sucks in sand unless it's a Dakar spec truck.
Have a look at toyota.ae to make yourself feel better ;-)
The 4runner and all 150 series swapped to the 8.2" in 2010 as well. As far as them having the same issues as the 8" equipped FJC.....that I don't know.
Edit: From what I can tell, the e-locker version of the 8" was never offered on the 4th gen 4runner which would be the 120 series and coincide with the 07-09 FJC. The lack of e-locker to muck things up might be the difference. Someone please correct me if they have better info, this is just speculation due to what I've read.
Another Edit: I spoke with Dean at JT's (Just Differentials) and he confirmed that the 4Runner has the same issue.
According to Dean, the failures tend to happen when the vehicles are modded with extra weight, big tires and actually see "offroad" use. I don't think daily driving in a stock truck is necessarily the problem. He said it has been more prevalent in the FJC because the FJC is more likely to be modded and used "offroad" compared to the older 4Runners which were primarily used as family vehicles. But when modified and used he said the 4Runner w/ 8" rear
suffers from the same affliction.
I guess I was just hypersensitive to the issue since I have an 07. I felt like at one time these threads were everywhere. This is just from doing a quick forum search. The build date thread which is 70+ pages long is probably the most interesting read. I haven't seen much lately because I assumed most people on this forum are driving 10+ model year FJCs but maybe it's alot of smoke and no fire. I never had an issue but then again I swapped at 75K. I did manage to break everything else before then however so who knows.
You would think the 4th gen 4runners would see failures too? Especially with the V8. I guess it makes sense they aren't offroaded or modded as extensively as some FJ's are.
I guess there were quite a few threads on it over the years. It just didn't seem like it. I had an '07 that I bought in August of '06 and never had a problem with it and I wheeled in Moab several times along with other places and it had over 203,000 miles on it when I traded it on the Tundra in April of '14. I met up with a group of FJs every year for about 3-4 years in Ouray and or Moab and a lot of them had '07s and they all wheeled in the areas they were from like AZ, CA, WA, OR, etc. and none of them had problems that I remember. Over the years I've never really broken anything. I've tried a lot of stuff in my vehicles in Moab and the only things I've had go wrong were a blown tire, a couple of lost bushings that cracked from age and fell out, and a bent idler arm on my pickup which I found out after I hit the main road and had one hell of a time steering. I made it to town though. The bushings caused the biggest wait for repairs when they had a hard time finding parts. I could have had the parts overnight if they would have told me they didn't know where to get any. The only diff problems I ever had was a bad seal that was replaced and they didn't replace a part like they should have and I was on vacation when the diff went out on the highway.
I always go into an obstacle after watching others and with the thought that the vehicle I was in was my only transportation and if I broke it I would be stuck with no way to get to work or home or anywhere else. If I thought there was a possibility of to much damage or I didn't feel right I wasn't to proud to take a strap or a bypass. I've seen a lot of damage from guys who didn't exercise that same caution or attitude also. Broken diffs, twisted drive shafts, exploded transfer cases, bent front suspensions, etc. Guys who were going to prove that they could make it over anything who started bouncing and breaking or hit things to fast and missed the line only to tear something off. I didn't want to be one of them and I'm thankful I had a mentor and best friend that ran Moab and many other wheeling sites over the years to teach me. I followed and went to many places a lot of expensive built rigs went in an old '90 Toyota pickup and 4Runner that were basically stock and had open diffs and then followed that in my FJ which is the first really built vehicle I ever had and the first one with a locker. I've had guys swear up and down that I had to have a locker to make it where we were only to be surprised that there wasn't one. I was on a trail one day and a guy was really going on about it and he really got pissed when someone pointed out that I had actually just done the obstacle in 2 wheel drive. I'd forgotten to lock the hubs in and didn't have a chance to do it before the tough spot.
Haha, I guess I fall in to that other category of guys you described. Some of us learn things the hard way. I was never intentionally trying to break anything but that didn't stop it from happening. I don't get to Moab or Ouray as much as I would like given my home base but it makes for a fun trip when I do. I would say most of my wheeling hours have been logged in ORV parks with clubs that run lots of buggies and truggies. The group of us who run street legal rigs generally get convinced that we can do trails that we probably shouldn't and damage generally ensues. The overall mentality of your surrounding group can sometimes influence what you think are the norms. The last three events I have been to I have seen people roll, flop, and destroy their rigs. Then again maybe it's just the southern "hold my beer and watch this" mindset that creates these problems. Again, I'm probably just hypersensitive since I have broken so much myself, and have seen more 8" failures in person than I think I should, but no worries, I was just throwing out why I feel the way I do and I respect your experiences as well.
The group can definitely persuade what someone does. I wheeled with and was a member of the Red Rock 4Wheelers which is the Moab based group. With them it was all about getting out, enjoying the experience, getting people, both new and experienced through the trail, and not tearing up the vehicles or the trails. If there were people that didn't want to abide by this idea then they were free to leave. It was a family thing too where it might be Dad in his new Jeep with Mom and the two little ones for the first time out right between two old timers that were on their 20th and 25th year of doing this. Fun times. There was some joking and heckling between the Jeeps and the Toyotas and the Fords and the etc. I also found it a challenge to try and take my pretty much stock truck the same place my friend and others took their highly built rigs with as little damage or problems as possible. There's nothing like the look on a guy's face with a Jeep (or other rig) full of $30,000 worth of upgrades or more when they struggle to climb something and are having the worst time and then you drive up in a stock Toyota pickup on factory 31" tires and open diffs and drive by him like it was a parking lot at church on Sunday. I met some great people from all over the states there and from a few different countries too including Switzerland, Germany, Luxembourg, and France. Fun times.
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