Scenarios - Page 2 - Toyota FJ Cruiser Forum
Emergency Preparedness This forum is for discussions of emergency preparedness, including wilderness first aid and survival, emergency communication, search and rescue operations, natural disasters and general self-sufficiency.

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post #11 of 355 (permalink) Old 11-29-2014, 12:25 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Scenarios

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= It was winter and the areas she passed through could be nasty and the roads were often some of the first ones that were closed. Depending on where you were stuck at they could be really remote too.
Having been through Wyoming in the fall it hit me that there is absolutely nothing for incredible distances on the highway. Cell phone service is not great, good luck getting internet or the fancy stuff on your phone to work outside any of the cities.

On a road trip, it also dawned on me when I saw the open gates, during storms they do not plow like they do on the East Coast. They close the gate and wait, if people are stuck in between the sections they may be there for sometime.

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post #12 of 355 (permalink) Old 11-29-2014, 12:48 AM
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Re: Scenarios

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Having been through Wyoming in the fall it hit me that there is absolutely nothing for incredible distances on the highway. Cell phone service is not great, good luck getting internet or the fancy stuff on your phone to work outside any of the cities.

On a road trip, it also dawned on me when I saw the open gates, during storms they do not plow like they do on the East Coast. They close the gate and wait, if people are stuck in between the sections they may be there for sometime.
Yep there are some remote stretches. Hell I drove 75 miles down a highway just outside my house to CO a couple of summers ago and didn't see a single vehicle or person in that time. Cell service is fairly good along the main corridors like I80 usually, but can fade out at any time. Don't even try in some areas off the beaten path. I've heard the ads about 4g and 5g or whatever. I get 3g once in awhile on my phone. It started squawking and making noise on me one day when I was down in Ogden, UT. I had no clue what was going on. Apparently being in the big city it picked up on the different things I usually don't get and was trying to update and connect and whatnot.

It's hard for them to plow and do upkeep on the roads here. They can plow through a section and by the time they turn around to get back it can be drifted in. They drop sand too, but if it's really icy, the wind will blow the sand right off of the road. Part of the reason they close them too is the wind itself. It can blow a semi over and if it's slick out you can get gusts in some areas that will blow you off the road if you're not expecting it. Also the weather can change in a short time. It was in the mid 50s for a high today. Sunday they are calling for possible snow and highs in the low 30s. A couple of weeks ago the temperatures dropped about 30 degrees in a 4 hour span and the winds were in the 50mph range when they were calm to start with. It can snow in the morning and be warm and bare in the afternoon.
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post #13 of 355 (permalink) Old 11-29-2014, 12:59 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Scenarios

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It's hard for them to plow and do upkeep on the roads here. .
Nebraska is just about as remote, between Cheyenne WY and Lincoln, not much exist. I'm curious what do they do for the non-local's who get stuck on the roads? I'm sure people become trapped every year between the gates.

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post #14 of 355 (permalink) Old 11-29-2014, 01:47 AM
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Re: Scenarios

Usually when they close them from what I've seen they have an Officer with the Highway Patrol close down the gates then either him or another will drive between them to where the next gate is and check for people. Also people that are on the road will have a spot to pull off at the next gate say at a town, wide spot, or access road that isn't closed that will take them to a town. Around here we have signs that tell you if the gate is closed to turn around and go back to town. Some people do and some will sit at the gates and wait. Sometimes if it's bad enough the Officers will escort people back to town. They open up the fairgrounds and other places if there are a lot of stranded travelers. We've had enough truckers and travelers to fill up all the truck stops, parking lots at the malls, the fairgrounds, and still some park on side streets.
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I'll ride in on a sunny day, Sing you a song, steal your heart away Like a cowboy Hang my hat like I'm here for awhile Kick off my boots and drive you wild Like a cowboy Well baby you know I can't stay long You wake up, I'll be gone Until then I'll hold on Like a cowboy.

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post #15 of 355 (permalink) Old 11-29-2014, 01:54 AM
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Re: Scenarios

I've been lucky and haven't been stuck from closed roads yet and haven't had to use any of the stuff I carry. It's there if needed though. Sometimes I think it's way overkill, but then again I've got it if needed. If I knew things were going to be really bad and I rationed stuff I could probably sit somewhere for 2-3 weeks maybe even 4 weeks. Water would be the first thing that I'd get low on, but then I could melt snow if needed. Usually if I'm traveling I'll have some extra water and iced tea with me besides what's stored in the vehicle too. Also if I know the weather is going to be bad I'll eat and/or bring something to eat with me too. The only times I've hit closed roads I've known ways around them and just took back roads or a different highway to get where I needed.

Go ahead, skin it! Skin that smoke wagon and see what happens...

I'll ride in on a sunny day, Sing you a song, steal your heart away Like a cowboy Hang my hat like I'm here for awhile Kick off my boots and drive you wild Like a cowboy Well baby you know I can't stay long You wake up, I'll be gone Until then I'll hold on Like a cowboy.

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post #16 of 355 (permalink) Old 11-29-2014, 03:11 AM
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Re: Scenarios

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Warning shots are generally unlawful, they are not in the continuum of force. Outside of some military applications they are generally not advisable. LE, Military and CCW instructors all advise against them not only for their ineffective nature but the unlawful nature of discharging a round onto a unknown target. Round has to go somewhere. Using a lethal weapon means that you fear for your life, a display of force has already been presented when you pulled your CCW, warning shots do nothing and could bring force against you.

If you feel your life is in danger, you may need to stop the threat, not scare it off. A concealed carry handgun is not for intimidation, it's to stop lethal threats to you or your family. If the threat backs off after you pulled your weapon, great, don't fire. It's a fluid concept, use of force, up and down the continuum.

This, of course, is not to knock your input at all. I enjoy these discussions, so much so I have made a career of what if's.
GTK, Thanks. I live in a Downtown where we sometimes have violence, and in my neighborhood just had one killed and 4 wounded. I can tell you that oftentimes people fire their guns down here, and people DO get out of the way- FAST. Of course, these are illegal guns, and it's usually a fight, and not an illegal Protest. I do not have a CCL at this time, but if I did I certainly would abide by the Law to the letter. I realize that when you fire a bullet upwards as a warning that it still has to come down, and could come down anywhere- so I get your point. Good Talk!

BTW What would YOU do in this situation- and let's ramp it up a bit- your 2 Year old Son is in the backseat car seat..?? You are surrounded and they are shaking your car back and forth, as described...thanks, Anne

An unexpected scenario can happen at anytime. Pic. of my FJ in Active Crime Scene Nov.8th, when 5 shot 1 killed on our block following a "fight".

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post #17 of 355 (permalink) Old 11-29-2014, 04:18 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Scenarios

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BTW What would YOU do in this situation- and let's ramp it up a bit- your 2 Year old Son is in the backseat car seat..?? You are surrounded and they are shaking your car back and forth, as described...thanks, Anne
Anne, no easy answer. Protesters are human and I'm not sure any of us are prepared to smash into people with our vehicles. Once the threat has started however, if you are pulled out of your vehicle things are going to go downhill very quickly.

In one of the video's currently on YouTube, the vehicle inches towards protesters and is going 1 or 2 miles per hour, less than walking speed, the protesters start yelling the vehicle hit someone. People start jumping on the station wagon, beating on it with flag poles ect; it's obvious, if the vehicle grazed someone no injuries were incurred. Once the first act of violence occurs by the mob, you have no hope but to get out of there. The driver of the vehicle proceeds to drive through the crowd.


The scary thing? The video shows a small child (maybe 8 or 9) standing with his father. I did not know anti-police protests were a family activity.

Two Examples:



In the other video, the reporter in the news chopper overhead almost seems surprised that the driver floors it. People have to be realistic, these protests could easily turn violent. Being surrounded, being yelled at, people beating on your windows. You better believe a person can fear for their lives and the lives of anyone else in the vehicle. It can quickly turn into a life or death situation.

To answer your question, if I feel the protests are about to turn violent, I'm getting out of there. I would do my best to avoid the intersection but once you are there you have to push through the threat. If you are mobile, stay mobile, just like convoy operations. Stopping and being surrounded is a major risk. I don't see a concealed firearm being the answer, as it is typical to only carry 5 to 10 rounds in a backup firearm. It's debatable if CCW's will even carry an extra magazine. You are not going to survive if you stay near the protesters, they feel justified in their physical response due to mob mentality, once it's started it's not going to end. A heck of a lot more people than a backup defensive firearm is meant to deal with.

One thing that continues to surprise me, people do not understand their rights. The right to peacefully assemble is granted but you never have the right to interfere with others rights. I think this is part of the reason why the crowd in the video almost seems vindicated that the driver is wrong. They honestly believe they can do what ever they want. For some reason protesters have this idea because they are protesting they are the right to interfere with others, break the law. YouTube is full of people claiming because it's a legal protest, they have a right to be in a road. You have the right to protest from the sidewalk. You do not have the right to impede traffic by standing in the middle of a roadway. Marches are bit different and are generally covered by a permit, not adhoc as we see here.
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post #18 of 355 (permalink) Old 11-29-2014, 04:39 AM
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Re: Scenarios

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Anne, no easy answer. Protesters are human and I'm not sure any of us are prepared to smash into people with our vehicles. Once the threat has started however, if you are pulled out of your vehicle things are going to go downhill very quickly.

In one of the video's currently on YouTube, the vehicle inches towards protesters and is going 1 or 2 miles per hour, less than walking speed, the protesters start yelling the vehicle hit someone. People start jumping on the station wagon, beating on it with flag poles ect; it's obvious, if the vehicle grazed someone no injuries were incurred. Once the first act of violence occurs by the mob, you have no hope but to get out of there. The driver of the vehicle proceeds to drive through the crowd.


The scary thing? The video shows a small child (maybe 8 or 9) standing with his father. I did not know anti-police protests were a family activity.

Two Examples:

Video One

Video Two

In the other video, the reporter in the news chopper overhead almost seems surprised that the driver floors it. People have to be realistic, these protests could easily turn violent. Being surrounded, being yelled at, people beating on your windows. You better believe a person can fear for their lives and the lives of anyone else in the vehicle. It can quickly turn into a life or death situation.

To answer your question, if I feel the protests are about to turn violent, I'm getting out of there. I would do my best to avoid the intersection but once you are there you have to push through the threat. If you are mobile, stay mobile, just like convoy operations. Stopping and being surrounded is a major risk. I don't see a concealed firearm being the answer, as it is typical to only carry 5 to 10 rounds in a backup firearm. It's debatable if CCW's will even carry an extra magazine. You are not going to survive if you stay near the protesters, they feel justified in their physical response due to mob mentality, once it's started it's not going to end. A heck of a lot more people than a backup defensive firearm is meant to deal with.
These Videos are a great example, and TY for showing the unEdited versions. Surely the Driver could NOT see what was going on because people were on the car hood obstructing the view, while others were beating at the windows. You must flee in that situation, 2 yr. old in back seat or not...or become Victim. I would hope any of us would try to keep a level head, call for help, and make decisions based on the level of perceived threat. A Mob that is out of control as we've seen all this week on TV, and perhaps have even witnessed in real life can quickly become a lethal threat. I personally hope none of us has to ever make that difficult decision as to whether or not to use lethal force. Unfortunately, these days you need a plan, and you have to be willing to survive if it comes down to that, and protect your loved ones, IMHO.

Thanks for your insightful input- very thoughtful and valuable. Like the whole concept of "Preparedness".
Thanks, Anne

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After a long day of tinkering on a Toyota Project that never seems to end, you finally hit the couch as your partner finishes dinner. You look towards the kitchen hoping to see some signs of a finished meal. The power fails. With only slight illumination of gas burners on the stove, the house is dark.

Update from your weather radio: Regional Power outage. East Coast.
A Government Emergency Message alerts you to faulty equipment in the power grid.

You call the local utility provider and are advised that there is not estimated time of repair.

Current temperature: 26 degrees expected to dip to 5.

A buddy calls you, a local photographer, advises you that even time square is down. People are laugh he says....


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post #20 of 355 (permalink) Old 12-06-2014, 11:25 AM Thread Starter
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Sorry guys, finals have taken priority for my Graduate Program. You would think at this point I live in a local library...



Looters have began to roam your neighborhood.

A few friends left the community, in hopes of making it family and friends outside the city. Your semi-urban community has several vacated homes, you promised to do your best to keep an eye on things while they were away. Despite being told they would try to send word of success from your friends you haven't heard from them.

This is a two prong question:
- Do you advise your friends the possibility of looters and leave goods with you that they are not taking? (Asking for their stuff so others can't get it)
- At what point do you secure vacated homes in a Katrina scenario?

After observing flashlights in a nearby home you can hear people in your backyard. The door of your shed slides open, with obvious male voices describing what they have found to each other. One of them says to the other "That's it? A lawnmower? Wheres the gas?", the other says "it must be in the garage"

Question:
What is your response?
Castle Doctrine in my state, states intruders must break the threshold of the residence in order to defend your life. Without rule of law in the current state of a regional crisis, I have a feeling you could fear for your life.

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- 1998 4x4 Chevy Tahoe - Sold
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