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let's put and end to the oil question

17K views 102 replies 51 participants last post by  RAAK_FJ 
#1 · (Edited)
If you live at the north pole; use synthetic.
If you live in Arizona; use synthetic.
Anywhere else, the dyno will handle all you can throw at it.
Case an point; of the racecar drivers that use synthetic, they show and prove no advantage. 95% of the nascar drivers run regular old dino. After every race, they all change oil. So show me where synthetic out do dino in normal driving. If you're rich; run synthetic (rich waist) If you're laymen; use dino(wise sense) now let's kill it. by the way, I like the sweet smell of valvoline.
 
#2 · (Edited)
I think you really need to do your research before posting. I think you're incorrect on almost every point you made.

1. 95% of the NASCAR teams DO NOT run dino oil. Synthetic is proven to provide roughly a 1-3% increase in horsepower. On a restricted motor making 700hp this comes out to around 21hp. You also failed to mention that most NASCAR teams swap out their engines after a race or two or rebuild it completely. Another thing, the engine and valvetrain components aren't designed for 100k + miles.

2. Dino leaves residue, doesn't last as long and doesn't have the cleansing properties of full synthetic.
 
#3 ·
Well said. Cruiser41, needs to get off the myth train. I work for a Champ Car team and yes, our Dyno shows significant (can't reveal specifics) HP improvement using Synthetic over conventional oil. Oil analysis also shows almost NO wear on engine components using Synthetic.

You want to put this to rest Cruiser41? Do more research and switch to Synthetic!!
 
#4 ·
well Mr Hot Rod, riddle me this; why is it that almost all vehicles with 200k or more, will testify for dino. Again you say it , but you can't prove it. I don't know if you are old enough to remember, but there was gentlemen that toured the US, in his volvo, it had 1milliion miles on it, to bust your bubble, he used good old dirty, subpar, supposeably inferior, guming up the engine, dino. Now to this day, I have never had a oil related failure, using stinky, inferior dino, and I have gone over 100k using the stinky, dirty stuff. After ALL THE BIG TIME ADVERTISING about being superior, the masses still prefer inferior dino. Now if you really wont to back your statement, use dino for over 100k, and then talk the talk.
 
#6 ·
More research is needed once again. Go here:

Car does 1 million miles, retires to museum - Wonderful World - MSNBC.com


p.s. There is NOT 1 team in Champ Car or F1 that would think about putting old fashioned conventional oil in a multi million dollar race car. Not because we have more money, but because we don't want it blowing up. In case you don't get it, this technology transfers to passenger vehicles as well.
 
#5 ·
run synthetic (rich waist) If you're laymen; use dino(wise sense)
I don't give two craps about the rest of your points, but this statement bothers me. It is a perceived notion that *rich* people waste money, while hard-earning laymen are frugal. Rubbish. Rich people get rich for a reason. Sometimes, just maybe, that reason may be wise investments and tapping resources. Hmmm...
 
#7 ·
Fj2play, are you talking about same viscosity? I just switched to Syntec and stayed with the mfr recommended 5W-30, so I'm curious. In your experience, would 5W-30 synthetic improve hp over 5W-30 dino? Or was the increase realized by going with a lighter weight synthetic that still provides equal protection of a heavier dino?
 
#10 ·
Yes, by switching just to Synthetic you can gain HP. That is not the goal here though with Passenger vehicles. HP gains will be so low, that if changing to Synthetic to gain HP only, the cost would not be worth it. We get 2 benefits from it in racing. HP and longevity. It's another insurance policy if you will.

Switching to Synthetic is for longevity of the engine only with passenger cars. ALWAYS use the manufacturer's recommended viscosity!! The Synthetic oil will do it's job as long as you do yours by using it...
 
#17 ·
Obviously you agree that synth provides better protection, since you suggested its use in Antarctica and Arizona. I think you're just arguing that it's not worth the extra money. It is a fact that synth oil lasts longer. That's my main motivation for using it, for less frequent oil changes. It is also a fact that almost all race teams use it for improved hp.

Now, I haven't looked this up yet, but if synthetic is truly synthetic, meaning it can be produced in a factory without using crude oil as its base, then it also reduces foreign oil dependency and provides environmental benefits. Would you agree?

Pros:
  1. Superior protection
  2. Superior resistance to viscosity breakdown (longer change intervals)
  3. Improved hp
  4. Reduced dependency on foreign oil sources
  5. Provides environmental benefits
Cons:
  1. Higher cost.
If you don't value any of the pros, then don't spend the extra money. It's completely up to you. Just as installing an intake or exhaust mod for an extra few hp is not worth it to many people. You have choices, use them as you like. No need to try to influence others with uninformed opinions or propaganda. Learn the facts and make your own decisions.
 
#14 ·
So show me where synthetic out do dino in normal driving.
I used to enjoy Saabs and their efficient and powerful turbo-charged engines. Oil in the so-called new generation Saabs (1994-1998) and 9-3 (99+) turbo engines will gell and seize the engine with infrequent dino oil changes. It appears to be due to the extreme heat generated by the turbo (which is cooled in part by the motor oil). While anecdotal, anyone owning and following the bulletin boards discussing those cars quickly becomes convinced of the necessity of running a full synthetic in that application. WOOT.
 
#18 ·
Good article to start.

Keep in mind, that article or refrence material, did not have updated information to some of the actual problems with Synthetic Motor Oil. If you browse to the "cons" area, you will notice a handful of concerns that HAVE been addressed by today's modern Synthetic Motor Oils.

FYI to the myth train riders.



.
 
#16 ·
Anyone ever wonder why synthetic oil prices went up when crude oil prices did?

Seems like some conspiracy s**t to me ;)
 
#28 ·
I would recomend Mobil 1. We have tested this Synthetic oil for years, and NEVER had a failure with it. On the Dyno or on the track, we were never let down.

I've heard good things about Royal Purple as well through my Hot Rod connections.

Enjoy your freedom of choice!!



.
 
#27 ·
synthetics are for high performance high output engines that experience incredible temperatures, pressures, etc.

they're marketed as performance boosters so that idiots in regular vehicles will pay three to four more times for a quart of lube for no performance or durability gain.

you'd get more results in changing the weight of the oil vs. whether it's dino or sythetic--it's just marketing bs.

sort of like k&n filters are just washable compared to disposable regular filters.
 
#32 ·
Since my last rebuild, my Honda motor has been on a strict diet of Mobil1. The motor that I pulled from this vehicle ran on conventional oil, and you could tell when inspecting any internal component. I did not change out the tranny on this go round, so I am still using a conventional oil in the transmission. When the time comes, the rebuilt tranny may get synthetic.
Engine Auto part Automotive engine part Vehicle Automotive exterior
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Land vehicle Vehicle Engine Car Auto part
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I have used RP in the past, with Isuzu Trooper. They were notorious for having sticky lifters, and RP help relieve some of that without replacing the valve train.

By no means am I an expert in the field, but I have seen hands-on proof of the long term benefits on syn over conv.
 
#33 ·
they have your money sunk into false claims of performance and durability, not mine.

the day your fjc magically transforms into a 500 hp track machine and requires synthetic oil, z-rated tires, high current plugs, and you drain the antifreeze and replace it with a coolant only solution for better performance, give me a call.
But... your in Antarctica. Don't you need the synthetic???


Note: I use AMSOIL synthetic. Whether it's waste or not... I err on the side of caution. Maybe when we all have 300,000 miles we can talk about it more.


Speaking of which. Wonder when the first FJ (private daily driver) will reach 100,000. That will be cool.
 
#37 ·
I think you guys need a job that keeps you busy....This is as trivial as the thread about regular gas vs. premium gas........

I use synthetic on all my cars after the third all change, this is because I either am either too lazy to change oil every 5K or I simply dont have the time to change that often.............

Am I wasting my money ?
I never count at oil change...........

Does the Engine last longer?
I don't know, other parts of my car falls apart before the engine does.........

Does it give me more HP ?
I dont know, even if it gives me 20HP more, I cant tell the difference..........

Let stop the pee pee contest and find other useful information to exchange....
 
#38 ·
This is useful information. I'd post the same info on a debate about regular vs. premium. If premium offered any "real" benifits I'd run it but it doesn't. Synthetic oil on the other hand does and it's proven.
 
#40 ·
I dont disagree that this is useful subject. But the format that was presented left a lot to be desired. Imagine a newbie who is reading this thread and wants to know about the difference in oil. He would be as clueless as he was before.

We got a guy starting this threat, got flamed at by a few people, unitentionally I might add, got pi***d off and disappeared. The oil discussion turned into a million mile car and then a saab turbo a volvo...

So whats the conclusion ??

I dont claim to be an expert. I was told that synthetic is better so I used it until someone tells me not to. Perhaps we should ask the Mythbusters to find out for us because surely i dont learn anything from this thread....
 
#39 · (Edited)
Funny about the million-mile Saab... I started using synthetic oil because I used to be partial turbo Saabs myself, and it was recommended because of the heat generated by the turbo, as someone stated. I have used synthetic (Mobil 1) in my vehicles since then because of the increased change intervals, which used to mean fewer oil messes to clean up in the garage, but now means less waiting at WalMart. FYI, you can pick a better filter off the shelf at WalMart or bring in your own for them to use (i.e., TRD). As for real-world benefits, synthetic is known to help some engines run quieter (sure helped with the 'tapping' in my Ram Hemi); I am still on dino oil break-in with my FJ, but since FJ engine noise is a common complaint on the forum, it could help.

Had to add to this becuase I just remembered why I stopped buying Saabs... my last one, I bought a non-turbo model (got a good price) and figured I didn't need to run synthetic, and the engine blew up at around 90K (bought a new 4Runner the next weekend). My previous synthetic/turbo Saab had over 200K on it when I sold it still going strong. Hmmm.
 
#43 ·
here is the site I have been looking for bob is the oil guy he use to have a nice comparison test between the two but I think it has been moved into his forum and you must be a registerd user to see it. But this is a great site and recomend you all look at it.
 
#46 ·
Ah, alittle verbal reparte. Was beginning to worry, but then when someone posts a pretty dogmatic thread, fur will fly and panties get wadded. Personally I'm synthetic, whatever that matters....................
 
#47 ·
Hmmm... did this subject die? I'd like to know, really what everyone thinks too, maybe I'm the new-b but I am old school and have always used dino oil. (Why do you call it dino anyway??)

But I am open to facts. If there was a side by side test to perform which is better what would that be? I am like most of you, the vehicle falls apart before I destroy the engine. Will that matter if I use synth or dino??
 
#50 · (Edited)
This discussion is incomplete without noting that Toyota recommends Dino. Don't know what it means but as of two years ago, it was a fact, not a myth.


"All Toyota vehicles come from the factory with natural petroleum-based engine oil. Toyota is currently recommending American Petroleum Institute (API) grade SJ petroleum-based engine oil. In moderate climates, this oil should have a Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) viscosity rating of 5W-30. In our high mileage tests with preventative maintenance performed at the recommended intervals, the recommended natural petroleum-based oil has provided excellent service.

If you decide to use synthetic oil for the engine, it would be best not to switch until the first scheduled oil change. Synthetic oil should meet or exceed the above specifications. Even if synthetic oil is used, we do not recommend a longer oil change interval. Also, once synthetic oil is used, you should keep using it and not switch back and forth with natural petroleum-based oil."
 
#51 ·
mr. hotrod', apparently you don't understand what you read. go back to my post and read it six more times. this was the gist of my statement; In a normal dailey driver, with oil change intervals 3-4G, the standard dino will prove to be more than adequate. in that range, systhetic give you no additional benefits. If you can't rationalize that, then synthetic should be on the dinner table.
Merry xmas to all and a Happy new year.
 
#53 ·
You continue to insult people, while misquoting or misstating the facts.
While this time you are partially correct, I'd like to clarify a couple of points:
In normal driving, with oil change intervals at 3-5,000 miles, petroleum lubes ARE more than adequate. Adequate is not the same thing as "as good as" or "the equivalant of". Synthetic oils, regardless of the interval, hold more suspended particulate matter - they hold dirt away from moving parts. They run at lower temperatures, so less heat stress to components. They have a higher shear coefficient - they go through smaller passages at higher, more protective viscosities. And they don't mix with combustion gases to form the same acids that petroleum lubes do, which lead to block corrosion. They also reduce friction on average about 3% just by being there (helps toward better fuel economy). Synthetics have advantages over petroleum based lubricants at ANY change interval - but both are adequate when changing frequently. Syns are just "more" adequate for long term wear reduction, component protection, and friction reduction.

More tech info ? Red Line Oil
 
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