Someone please explain this to me. - Toyota FJ Cruiser Forum
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
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Someone please explain this to me.

So, I am the guy that just cannot leave well enough alone. Picked up my 07 first of the week. Got her home, now to make sure there is no maintenance that needed to be tended to. Changed Dif fluids, crawled around underneath a bit to see what was what considering this is the first time I have ever really taken a close look at one of these. Thought to myself "self, I'll bet that mass air flow sensor and throttle body ain't been cleaned in quite a while." My self said, "I'll bet your right." So I looked and sure enough, nothing looked like it had been disturbed in quite a while. So I broke out my can of Mass Air Sensor cleaner and CRC throttle body cleaner and took to the task. Got the Mass Air done, and let sit and dry good while I took apart the throttle body.

This is where things made me go hmmmm. Learned that there is coolant running out of the intake into the throttle body and back. Wondered why that thing was so warm as it had not been super long since I drove it. So this brigs my question.

With all the money spent and time and energy designing things like cool cans, cold air intakes, ect. Why in the world would anyone want to heat up the throttle body by running hot coolant through it? I mean obviously it works, but do them things actually get hotter sitting up there where they are without the coolant running through there? Seems counter productive to me. Seems it would heat up the air we are desperately trying to cool down and condense. Or am I just way off here?

It aint a big deal, just curious.

On a side note, she actually responds a bit better now, was a bit dirty up there but now clean as a whistle.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-13-2019, 08:33 AM
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Re: Someone please explain this to me.

Guess - just a guess because I am NOT automotive engineer:

It's to warm up the entire intake system in cold climes. In FL & TX, LA, MS, GA, AL - we rarely see snow, and even then it is not around for long. Chicago, MT, WY, CO, OR, WA, etc. see it for months.

I saw the same thing and wondered the same thing once I removed that ridiculous engine cover and tossed it away...LOL

You just got me wondering what the ECU will do when I disconnect those water lines...hmmmm....

Because you are right - warming the TB would just counter everything people are doing trying to cram more air into their mix.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-13-2019, 08:46 AM
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Re: Someone please explain this to me.

They are there to keep the body warm to prevent the butterfly from freezing in cold climates. Cold air and warm engine create condensation - this is designed to combat this.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-13-2019, 01:34 PM
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Re: Someone please explain this to me.

Nope..

The coolant runs though the thottle body for the air control valve. This allows air to enter when the engine is cold. Toyota uses a wax pellet to actuate this valve. When the wax heats up it expands and closes the air bypass for normal idle. It has nothing to do with warming the throttle body, or air entering the engine.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-13-2019, 02:44 PM
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Re: Someone please explain this to me.

PhoS -
where exactly is this "wax pellet" valve? so this is like a fast idle control?
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-13-2019, 03:09 PM
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Re: Someone please explain this to me.

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PhoS -
where exactly is this "wax pellet" valve? so this is like a fast idle control?
Sealed inside the throttle body. Yes, exactly like fast idle control valve.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-13-2019, 04:02 PM
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Re: Someone please explain this to me.

then it gains nothing but rough idle when cold if disconnected.....TYVM

wax pellet thermostats everywhere in Toyo stuff....
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-13-2019, 04:34 PM
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Re: Someone please explain this to me.

More reliable than a servo.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-13-2019, 05:27 PM
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Re: Someone please explain this to me.

Quote:
PhoS previously said: View Post
Nope..

The coolant runs though the thottle body for the air control valve. This allows air to enter when the engine is cold. Toyota uses a wax pellet to actuate this valve. When the wax heats up it expands and closes the air bypass for normal idle. It has nothing to do with warming the throttle body, or air entering the engine.
Nope, completely wrong.

There is no "air control valve" on a 1GR-FE engine. Basic idle speed, additional throttle opening when the AC is switched on, increased idle speed when cold, etc. are ALL handled by modulating the servo-motor-driven throttle butterfly, in conjunction with the Throttle Position Sensor. The Idle Air Control Valves used by Toyota for the last 20 years have been electronic, controlled by the ECU, not a wax pellet or bi-metal spring.

The engine coolant through the throttle body is to prevent icing around the throttle butterfly in cold conditions with high humidity. On one side of the throttle butterfly is atmospheric air pressure, on the other side is very low pressure (manifold vacuum). At small throttle openings, as the air passes across the throttle butterfly, the air expands and cools even further. If the intake air is already cold, the air temp max drop below the dewpoint, and moisture may condense just downstream of the butterfly. If the throttle body gets cold enough, the moisture may form frost or even a buildup of ice. Moisture from the crankcase ventilation system, fed into the throttle body via the PCV valve, may also contribute to condensation or icing.

This wasn't usually a problem when intake manifolds were big chunks of cast aluminum, and conducted heat up from the block to the throttle body. The later plastic manifolds (like the 1GR-FE uses) conduct little or no heat to the throttle body, and some form of supplementary heat source is required. In some V6 models, Nissan used an electric heating element just downstream of the butterfly. Toyota uses engine coolant in many models.

Carburetor icing in reciprocating aircraft engines is a serious and potentially fatal problem. In a carburetor, there is substantial additional cooling effect as the fuel is pulled into the carb venturi and changes state from liquid to vapor. All aircraft carbs are equipped with some kind of pilot-controlled anti-icing system to prevent in-flight engine power loss or shutdown due to carb icing.

Last edited by FJtest; 09-20-2019 at 01:27 PM.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-13-2019, 06:05 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Someone please explain this to me.

Well now. Thanks guys. Had no idea about any of that. Guess living in Florida I never think about Ice being a problem. Only time we see it is for about 3 hours a year or in the freezer...lol... So what would happen if a fella in a extremely warm climate bypassed that sort of thing? Also, someone above talked about tossing that engine cover. This brings a follow up question. Is that thing doing any good other than covering the engine that is already covered by the hood. Other than holding heat that is? Wondering if I should toss that also.
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