Broken Welded nut in Frame repair? - Toyota FJ Cruiser Forum
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-05-2016, 10:21 PM Thread Starter
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Broken Welded nut in Frame repair?

Like many others before me, I broke off a captured nut from inside the frame. I was removing my skid pates and the bolt just kept spinning and spinning.

I was able to remove the bolt by drilling out the head until it fell off of the shaft, but now there is nothing there to attach the skid plate.

I've read that some people have used Crimp nuts or Rivnuts, but I a little hesitant to spend the $100 on the tool used to install them, just for this one nut. Is there a cheaper way to compress them then the special tool?

I could weld in a new nut, but I've never had to weld anything under my car before, so it is not the first thing I want to jump into. I'd like to see a repair that someone else has done before attempting the welding solution. So please send a link if you have welded in a new M8 nut into a hole. It seem like it would be hard to keep the nut square to the frame while you weld it in place. I also worry about the weld getting into the threads and then having to cut the whole mess back out again.

My other idea was drill a hole into a 1/4" thick bar about 1" wide, maybe 3" long and weld a M8 nut over the hole. I could then stick the bar into the frame through an access hole. Once I got the bolt started, the bar would just spin around in the frame until it his the side, providing a positive stop and the ability to tighten the bolt. I just wonder if this could cause problems long term, such as rusting or rattling.

I would appreciate any input, or links on a proper repair.

Thanks,
Chuck
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-05-2016, 10:31 PM
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Re: Broken Welded nut in Frame repair?

My mechanic had a weld nut come off the frame while reinstalling the front sway bar. His solution was to take a new nut and weld a 4 inch bolt to it. It was the end of the bolt welded to the side of the nut. He then stuck the nut and bolt thru the access hole near where the original nut had broke off. He then took a bolt and threaded it thru the frame onto his welded nut. The added 4inch bolt stopped the nut from spinning inside the frame. Been 8 months and everything is fine. Hope it helps
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-06-2016, 08:03 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Broken Welded nut in Frame repair?

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His solution was to take a new nut and weld a 4 inch bolt to it. It was the end of the bolt welded to the side of the nut.
That was my thought with using the flat bar, I guess the 4" bolt would be easier.

Thanks!
-C
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-06-2016, 08:39 AM
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Re: Broken Welded nut in Frame repair?

I had the same thing happen with one of those damn frame nuts and didn't know what to do.

I ended up finding a local mechanic that had a simple plan, as you proposed above. He ended up drilling out the hole in the frame a bit wider, then welded in an M8 flange nut. The wide flat base of the flange nut made it much easier to keep it flush with the frame while welding it in.

The job was done in less than 10 minutes, looks great, and it has held up to lots of abuse over the last two years. Good luck on your fix!

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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-06-2016, 11:45 AM
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Re: Broken Welded nut in Frame repair?

For installs when this has happened at Metal-tech 4x4, we weld a new nut in. Its always a PITA to do but in the end its clean. . For rear frame captured 12x1.25mm where the bumper goes on, we hole saw a 1.5" access window to the inside of the frame. Then weld the nut in place. The weld the plug from the 1.5" access hole back into the frame. All the welds are arc's on the frame so much better for anti cracking.

When you weld a nut in, it always distorts a bit so make sure you have the proper tap standing by to chase the threads once it cools. If you dont have a tap, make a chasing tap from an extra bolt. To do this, use a cut off wheel like on a dremel and make a slit as deep as the threads but up the bolt perpendicular to the threads. Just a line right up the bolt. This makes an interrupted cut, allowing the threads to clear away anything.

For installing nutserts without a special tool, easy. You use a Grade 10.8 bolt, nut and washer. You thread into the nutsert, with a washer between the top of the nutsert and a nut. Using two wrenches you teightn the nut down on the bolt, it will pull the back of the nutsert up into the lock position. Key part for Nutserts to work is the proper sized tight fit of the hole you drill them out to. Here is a photo from one of the Metal-tech 4x4 instruction sheets where we have a nutsert used in a frame for sliders. (4th Gen 4R)

Good luck!

Metal-tech 4x4
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-06-2016, 12:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Broken Welded nut in Frame repair?

Quote:
MT4x4 previously said: View Post
Its always a PITA to do but in the end its clean. . For rear frame captured 12x1.25mm where the bumper goes on, we hole saw a 1.5" access window to the inside of the frame. Then weld the nut in place. The weld the plug from the 1.5" access hole back into the frame.

For installing nutserts without a special tool, easy. You use a Grade 10.8 bolt, nut and washer. You thread into the nutsert, with a washer between the top of the nutsert and a nut.
Thanks for the input! I like the idea of using the nutsert, but it looks like it could be a pain to do upside down. It looks like you would have to hold two wrenches and push the bolt into the hole all at the same time. I'd like to say that I could get someone to help, but I usually have work alone. We have a air gun at work that we use on our products, but it is only for SAE thread.

Drilling a hole in the back side of the frame is not really an option. This is the nut used to hold on a skid plate. It is under the passenger foot well, in the cross member that connects the lower parts of the front 'A' arms. There are some holes in this cross member, but I think they are just there so that it can fill up with dirt, that will later deposit on your head at a later time.

As it looks right now, I think I'm going to try the option of making a nut with a "wing" on it so it stops against the frame. If I can get that to work, it will stay until after the Summit. If I cant get that to work, I'll try to weld in a flange nut of some sort.

For a more experienced welder, welding in a nut would be a non issue, but for me and my Miller loaded with flux core wire, welding under the FJ up on jack stands is just a little daunting.

Thanks,
-C
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-07-2016, 07:32 PM
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Re: Broken Welded nut in Frame repair?

Quote:
Miata2k previously said: View Post
Thanks for the input! I like the idea of using the nutsert, but it looks like it could be a pain to do upside down. It looks like you would have to hold two wrenches and push the bolt into the hole all at the same time. I'd like to say that I could get someone to help, but I usually have work alone. We have a air gun at work that we use on our products, but it is only for SAE thread.

Drilling a hole in the back side of the frame is not really an option. This is the nut used to hold on a skid plate. It is under the passenger foot well, in the cross member that connects the lower parts of the front 'A' arms. There are some holes in this cross member, but I think they are just there so that it can fill up with dirt, that will later deposit on your head at a later time.

As it looks right now, I think I'm going to try the option of making a nut with a "wing" on it so it stops against the frame. If I can get that to work, it will stay until after the Summit. If I cant get that to work, I'll try to weld in a flange nut of some sort.

For a more experienced welder, welding in a nut would be a non issue, but for me and my Miller loaded with flux core wire, welding under the FJ up on jack stands is just a little daunting.

Thanks,
-C
C No fun welding with flux core inverted!
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-08-2016, 02:34 AM
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Re: Broken Welded nut in Frame repair?

Quote:
MT4x4 previously said: View Post
For installs when this has happened at Metal-tech 4x4, we weld a new nut in. Its always a PITA to do but in the end its clean. . For rear frame captured 12x1.25mm where the bumper goes on, we hole saw a 1.5" access window to the inside of the frame. Then weld the nut in place. The weld the plug from the 1.5" access hole back into the frame. All the welds are arc's on the frame so much better for anti cracking.

When you weld a nut in, it always distorts a bit so make sure you have the proper tap standing by to chase the threads once it cools. If you dont have a tap, make a chasing tap from an extra bolt. To do this, use a cut off wheel like on a dremel and make a slit as deep as the threads but up the bolt perpendicular to the threads. Just a line right up the bolt. This makes an interrupted cut, allowing the threads to clear away anything.

For installing nutserts without a special tool, easy. You use a Grade 10.8 bolt, nut and washer. You thread into the nutsert, with a washer between the top of the nutsert and a nut. Using two wrenches you teightn the nut down on the bolt, it will pull the back of the nutsert up into the lock position. Key part for Nutserts to work is the proper sized tight fit of the hole you drill them out to. Here is a photo from one of the Metal-tech 4x4 instruction sheets where we have a nutsert used in a frame for sliders. (4th Gen 4R)

Good luck!

Metal-tech 4x4

used this method to install the rivnuts holding my factory airdam to the roof rack. Pain in the ass and felt like something was going to snap at any moment, but got the job done
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-08-2016, 09:05 AM
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Re: Broken Welded nut in Frame repair?

Either is strong. The style in my hand is easier to install.
When mounting skid plates or anything exposed to the elements, always use antiseize and life will be easier.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-08-2016, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Broken Welded nut in Frame repair?

Quote:
DX FJC previously said: View Post
Either is strong. The style in my hand is easier to install.
When mounting skid plates or anything exposed to the elements, always use antiseize and life will be easier.
That looks like exactly what I need. As long as you have a few extra, just swing over to my place install it for me. How far are you from Oklahoma?

I think I'm going to just weld something in place this weekend. There is always a grinder if I make a mistake.

-Chuck
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