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BRAKES different point of view???

8K views 48 replies 18 participants last post by  abahn 
#1 ·
I have about 50K on my FJ and its really time for front pads to be replaced. not even looking into the brand at this time, but at the proper procedure while doing front (or rear) brake pads change. Usually, I change the pads myself, run to the local machine shop to resurface rotors (if still within the specs), than reinstall all together with new pads. However, today I was surpised by mechanic in the local car shop when he said that my rotors do not need any job. He continue that with my semimetalic pads resurfacing is not needed with rotors condition like mine. I took my car, just because of curiosity, and went to another shop (well known for high end car and collectibles repairs) and after spending one hour and $30 fee charge I had almost the same opinion (except, that any good quality pads would work with my rotors with no need for turning the rotors down). any thoughts on that? any opinion counts...:cheers:
 
#2 ·
Re: [B]BRAKES[/B] different point of view???

I agree 100% , I have not turned rotors in twenty five years , the pads will break in and wear and shape to any moderate imperfections. If you turn down you likely will have problems with rotor warping and shimmy , not to say that in 30 days they will look virtually identical to what you had to begin with .... So providing your pads have not worn down to metal on metal just take some emery cloth and break the shiny surface on the rotar and put your new pads on ,as good as new.... Just a note check the rotors for heavy heat checking or cracks and blue color ,this would be a sign of over heating of the breaks requiring new rotors and a closer look as to why.
 
#5 ·
Re: [B]BRAKES[/B] different point of view???

I agree 100% , I have not turned rotors in twenty five years , the pads will break in and wear and shape to any moderate imperfections. If you turn down you likely will have problems with rotor warping and shimmy , not to say that in 30 days they will look virtually identical to what you had to begin with .... So providing your pads have not worn down to metal on metal just take some emery cloth and break the shiny surface on the rotar and put your new pads on ,as good as new.... Just a note check the rotors for heavy heat checking or cracks and blue color ,this would be a sign of over heating of the breaks requiring new rotors and a closer look as to why.
^^^Agreed, unless there is major grooving in the rotor I run them for two sets of pads per rotor, then toss 'em and buy a new ones. I haven't had a rotor turned in 10+ years.
 
#3 ·
Re: [B]BRAKES[/B] different point of view???

cool, but what about mu sienna when a while ago brake pads change... I have not touch the rotors...
and I had the funny steering wheel shake and I was told than it is because of the rotors not being flat at the surface? I am happy with keeping the rotors as they are now, no wheel shake, great stopping power, happy as I can be. just trying to improve my knowledge and see what other people may think and experience. thanks for first reply...really appreciated.
 
#4 ·
Re: [B]BRAKES[/B] different point of view???

Hi Chris , happy to share my experiences especially if I can be of help... I am not sure about the story of your Sienna, did you say the pads were changed without rotor turning and since then you have had a shimmy or was there always some shake when applying the breaks ? This could be do to not deglazing the rotor surface for the new pads to get a bite on the rotor and could take a little time for the contact surfaces to match perfectly, just imagine the back and front pads not gripping at exactly the same time can give you a slight shimmy at light break pressure. The key with changing pads only is the rotors do have to be in good condition, new pads will not fix problems that already exist, this only works when the original pads are worn low but everything else is in good condition. I believe many dealers have stopped resurfacing rotors for labour reasons and because resurfacing required someone with trained skills were as the first year apprentice can put new rotors on , as a result less cost to the dealer and More cost to the customer.
These are my thoughts which may not align with others however two mechanics you talked to seem to share the same view.....If you can get away doing pads only you will save a bag of money if you can do them yourself , a bigger bag .
:cheers::wave:
 
#6 ·
I always resurface my rotors... I also always only use OEM factory rotors. Unless you spend thousands on an aftermarket upgrade, the cheapos, especially drilled and slotted always crack on me. I've had plain Chinese rotors out of round so bad they rub on certain bits...

But there is truth in what they say, it actually is better to bed new pads in on old rotors, though I think it really only effects the life of the pad itself. I think the glaze on a used rotor is more gentle on the pad, and a resurfaced rotor will chew up a lot of the pad building up the glazing (which does help stopping power though). A lot of places I go to won't even turn newer replacement rotors because they are so thin to start off with.

I always bed them in properly per the manufacturers specs.


FWIW... I had great success in zinc plating and cryo treating factory rotors. They have taken a lot of abuse from HPS pads and are still quite nice. *

*not on an fj :p
 
#8 ·
are there any benefits for installing aftermarket (good quality) pads or rotors?

After all the armor and larger tires im running, I'm somewhat concerned with the capability of the stock setup.
 
#9 ·
Better stopping.


But the FJ already stops pretty well stock IMO. I do think the stock pads suck (no this is not a contradiction to the statement I just made :p) and look forward to them wearing down so I can replace them. I think the stock rotors (and calipers for that matter) will be fine with an upgraded pad.
 
#10 ·
Have a 93 Toy Truck 250k original rotors never turned. Have a 01 Tacoma 150k original rotors never turned. Had 07 FJ replaced pads around 50k, The FJ was the easiest of all to change the front pads, pull the pins ,push wheel cylinders in to allow new pads to slide in, reinsert pins and put the wheel back on.
 
#11 ·
Great feed back, I am curious as well about the Zinc plating and cryo treating certainly nothing accessible here, is this something done to harden the surface or does this lower temperature to reduce fade and warping??
Tsy87 better quality pads give better breaking performance under heavier use, they can give good stopping while at higher temperatures so you don't have brake fade . There are performance large rotor and caliper kits available through TRD for one, but I personally don't see the need unless into racing or often pulling heavy loads.
:cheers:
 
#12 ·
my idea was to get some valuable info, and I am gettin that...great and thanks to all of you and maybe more to come. I wasn't sure if having 50K or 35K make much difference on rotors (except they maybe thinner with having higher millage) and having more millage requaires resurfacing (possibly?no? who knows who's right?) In past, as I mention, I did resurface rotors (pads were all the way down, some grooves has shown after that on rotors) because I had to. Not sure how true my rotors are after all the miles and having heavy weight on the FJ until last year when it went through slimfast therapy (back to stock except the lift, but no more aftermarket bumpers winches, roof rack, skid plates, oversized tires and steelies, and all the other smaller stuff). Will look forward to hear about cryo and zinc plating...what does it and how long last.
 
#13 ·
The OEM brake pads are ceramic not semimetalic so I'd stick with ceramic. If the steering wheel doesn't shake when you hit the brakes then your rotors should be good to go. Check for minimum rotor thickness and deglase the rotor surface before installing new pads. BTW, when was the last time you changed your brake fluid?
 
#27 · (Edited)
If the steering wheel doesn't shake when you hit the brakes then your rotors should be good to go. Check for minimum rotor thickness and deglase the rotor surface before installing new pads. BTW, when was the last time you changed your brake fluid?
bingo dingo!!! :cheers:

even when resurfacing, I`ll cut down the tool marks with a whizzer while the rotor is on the brake lathe.

otherwise, I`ll hold them on with a few lugs, and fire up the rig and ket them spin... up on lift or stands and safety in mind of course...:lol:

but I can agree and disagree with some points in this thread.
Ceramic = good

FJ`s stopping power = ok, I`ve had better with similar or heavier weight vehicle.

my plan, is to try an upgrade with aftermarket rotors and ceramic pads...

I used to use Carbon metallic , I think they were Performance Friction or Hawk. they pulled down a 4k Torino from a quick blast very very fast. braking distance was reduced by a lot... but they were 12" rotors as well...

anyhoo......
 
#16 ·
thanks for the ups, but is there a lifetime for brake fluid? not that I don't want to do it, actually I will do it, but base on condition where the car is used, how is used, or the actual time since new brake fluid was added in the sytem. also, anything to look for (like color change, different viscosity or ???) that would rise a flag for brake fluid that need to be changed? thanks
 
#17 · (Edited)
Hey Chris, new break fluid looks like Apple juice .... If yours is brown - black the fluid is contaminated and well past due for a flush with new. I read BF should be flushed every two years for non-race use sooner for heavy use .....It is super important that you do not allow any air to enter the system while bleeding, if you do your ABS will be a problem that will almost surely require a shop to fix for you. Before doing anything do a Search or ask for some tips here from some that have experience with this . I would start by using a syringe and suck most of the old from the reservoir and fill with new ... Make sure you use the DOT# asked for .
Good luck.
 
#21 ·
Hey Chris, new break fluid looks like Apple juice .... If yours is brown - black the fluid is contaminated and well past due for a flush with new. I read BF should be flushed every two years for non-race use sooner for heavy use .....It is super important that you do not allow any air to enter the system while bleeding, if you do your ABS will be a problem that will almost surely require a shop to fix for you. Before doing anything do a Search or ask for some tips here from some that have experience with this . I would start by using a syringe and suck most of the old from the reservoir and fill with new ... Make sure you use the DOT# asked for .
Good luck.
That's not a "one size fits all" scenario anymore but still a pretty good "rule of thumb". Some synthetic brake fluids are purple (or colored in general, I know blue is out there as well) when new and then turn to the yellow-ish color as they age.
 
#23 ·
I would never do a pad slap, especially for a customer. There is a difference. A shop should be concerned with noise, break in time, pulsation in the pedal. Grandma doesn't know how her brakes work, she just knows that they make noise. When I do them for my PD cars I even roadtest them hard enough to get the burnt smell out of them. A cop is the same way, he don't know how it works, he just knows it smells funny. On my fire equipment it all gets replaced with a hard test drive too. We don't know when that next call will come so it needs to be right when I put it back in service. I have seen them go code 3 leaving the shop.
Its more work but do them right...

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#24 ·
50K and replacing pads??? Something has to be wrong here... I have 117K on my 08 and still run the original pads in front, only had to change out rear because one sleepy morning i drove off with the e-brake on...

My rotors have recently started to send a pulse back up through the brake pedal. I am just going to drive till I hear metal and them I'm going to the dealer and buy another set of factory rotors and pads...

I have a MT and use my brakes in conjunction with downshifting so its not that I baby it.

For what its worth, the TRD calipers had issues and were recalled for sticking. If you only got 50K I would really want to check out the calipers!!

Cryo is great for case hardening rotors, transmission and rear end gears - they basically dip them into liquid nitrogen -500F I think and it reorients the molecular structure on the surface. Unless you're running in the Hammer or some other competition I wouldnt waste my money. Back in my VW days there were some inherintly weak components in trannys that would last when cryo was done and save you from blowing things...

If you are doing brake fluid, the super blue synthetic has worked real well for me especially if you tend to get things a little warm. But if thats a concern then you would gain more consistent brakes by upgrading to stainless braided lines vs the OEM rubber which expands when you press on the pedal...

Its not like you're autocrossing your FJ where you can get those nice red rotors LOL..
 
#25 ·
50k is pretty good for a set of front brakes. The average vehicle is half that. The issue with the TRD recall was a brake line was rubbing.
Like what was said earlier, brake fluid does soak up moisture. It wouldn't hurt to flush it. Nobody ever does though. Dot 4 will give you a little higher boiling temp. Dot 5 has a different base and should not be mixed. You would never get all the fluid out of everything. So I would not mix the two.

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#26 ·
Dudes, thanks for all the info...I do not know how much more I can go on my brake pads, but I agree 50K is not bad, especially I tow trailer three or four times a week for work on pawed and back roads. not heavy but still there is something behind to brake for. I have seen that there is a huge difference between some brakes that required change in 30K, and some as we see now well over 100K. not sure how is that even to compare...maybe it should not be. but one way or another I will change the pads, flash the fluid (by the way still looks like new), check the calipers, and for sure do it right. still not sure if I am going to do the job or let the shop do it. great info everyone.
 
#31 ·
took the wheels of today and look at the pads...seems like those are even on both sides of the rotor on each front wheel. so, I guess, the calipers work fine and none of these is seized. seems like my driving habit and towing a trailer are the pad "eaters" that prevent me from reaching 100K. if everything goes as planned I will be changing pads and brake fluid this Saturday. I will post the results. unless someone would like to comment or post more opinions or ideas.
 
#33 ·
so, I didn't work on the brakes as I was to last Saturday...wifes and also a family car took over the space in the garage. however, what I have noticed is that on sienna with 56K miles brake feel was way more soft that mine fj is. I did replace the pads on the sienna but also disc brakes needed repalcement. so, as conclusion, soft brake means possible disc replacement?
 
#34 ·
No... That kind of soft pedal is driver comfort. It should still be solid once its down. A squishy or spongy pedal is a indication of air in the system. Think of it as stepping on a balloon. A sinking pedal is a leak of some sort internal or external. Once you apply hydraulic brakes they should always be solid. That one probably has a different applied feel because of pedal or lever ratio, power assist, and cylinder bore.
But they should always be solid.

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#37 ·
I recently installed EBC PADS around and had a shimmy in the wheel during the bed in and it never left. With a little research I found that my local Less Schwab
had a machine to turn the entire rotating assembly on the vehicle. OMG its awesome, no shimmy at high speed braking or driving. I am running stock size duratracks 265x75R16 C with All PRO 1.25 spacers. They turned the entire rotating assembly. Just did 2917 to the summit round trip, and they are great breaks. I will always have them turned on the vehicle to correct ant run-out issues. I had the rotors turned by a local machine shop before my trip to LS and it was $80.00 down the drain for turning off the FJ. I hope this will help with future brake jobs.
Your all Awesome!!!!!
PS. 79000 miles and counting.:bigthumb:
 
#39 ·
They charged me $110.00 total, but they worked it in around other work so gave me heck of a deal. This included balancing BFG AT 265x75R16 and re-torquing the All Pro spacers. A month later I changed to Duratracks C-rated at Americas tire due to the reviews on this forum and the weight diff between tires. BFG's E-rated were just to much tire for the FJ. I'm not sure but this might have something to do with the shimmy FJ problem, I never had a shimmy until I changed brakes and then went away after having them turned on the vehicle. Round trip to summit 2917 miles, wheeled some in Moab before and then some on our way home, stops straight with zero shimmy at any speed and alignment still perfect after bumping around.

:bigthumb:
 
#42 ·
sorry if i shouldnt be bringing this thread back to life but i am curious about the cost of oem rotors and pads. I was quoted $689 (calgary, Ab) just for the pads and rotors at the dealer. this seems excessive as i did some searching on the web and noticed that the parts were significantly lower in the US but of course they would burn me for shipping. so i ask does anyone know how i can get cheaper parts in canada or a place in the US that doesnt want an arm or leg for shipping?

the second part who can i go to to see if all i need to do is change out the pads and get a truthful answer? I have 90,000 km on the originals. or at least i thnk they are the originals i dont recall the previous owner mentioning changing them. the rotors seem fine but the pads are getting down to almost the point of making the dreaded noise.

thanks all
 
#43 ·
Is that labor too?
the parts have to be about the same but the labor could be different and possibly an inspection fee?

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