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Uh Oh...Axel Replacement :(

4K views 31 replies 14 participants last post by  SonicFJ 
#1 ·
So I posted a few days ago about a squeaking that turned out to be a CV leak...well turns out, I have to have my entire front axel replaced, and Toyota is claiming that my lift voided the warranty:flame:

I had my lift installed by one toyota dealership (Toyota of Cleveland) and they said that they were going to cover the lift under warranty and unless something from the suspension fails, as it is not a toyota part, they would cover it. Well, the other dealership in town, Capital Toyota, is not covering it under warranty, however, they are being helpful in giving me an entire detailed report and even the old axel.

What they told me was wrong was the inner tulip on the front axel, passenger side, on the CV inner joint, its inner ball bearings were binding and wrapping around each other, causing it to fail. They claim that the lift put the CV's at such an angle as to cause this to happen, but I'm not so sure, as plenty of other forum members have the same 3" Rough Country lift and have not had these problems.

I did get into an accident a few months ago on that caused damage to the front passenger bumper, same side of the axel that failed, could that have anything to do with it? Or could it have been caused by offroading or hitting a deep pothole or rut? Or could it be something else? One of my friends suggested axel wrap where the axel comes loose and shifts back upon acceleration, causing the inner bearing to wrap around inside?

I'm trying to get this under warranty somehow, maybe the dealer who installed the lift will reimberse me? not sure.

Please, any answers or opinions would greatly help!:bigthumb:
 
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#2 ·
I don't get it. Why didn't you go back to the dealership who installed the lift and said the truck would still be warrantied???

It's not often you read about CV failure on 3" lifts.
 
#3 ·
Because the dealership that installed the lift is about 25 miles away and this on is about 5 or 6. I was hearing a terrible squeaking metal on metal noise, I though it was just the CV boot leaking, but still didn't want to drive far on it...turns out it was a good idea not to drive far on it as it was highly unsafe. I've been talking to both dealerships all day, its been quite frustrating as the one who installed the lift isn't quite standing by what they said...:flame::flame::flame::boohoo:
 
#4 ·
If you have already had the work done and agreed to pay for it you are pretty much out of luck. The first response from dealerships is generally that you will have to pay for it, it's business and they want you to pay. To get what you want takes patience and perseverance. It should not be that way, but that is just how it is. I hope that it all works out for you.
 
#7 ·
I would have gone to where I made the purchase... If you bought it as a dealer option I would write them a real nice letter explaining there warranty promise. Did you pay for any optional warranty? If they hold there position see if they will pay for the CV and you for the labor... If all else fails send a email to coporate and let the dealership know.
 
#8 ·
Cleveland is the dealership we bought it from back in '08 I believe. They installed the lift in late september of this year. It has the 3 year/36,000 Mile warranted with just about 30,000 miles on it. I'm not so sure about cleveland though...they seem to be giving contradicting information, and they also did the 30,000 mile service on it just over a week ago, before I started noticing the problem and after the last time I went offroading, and they didn't identify the problem so yea....

The tow is about $300 at the moment...and the new axel is coming in tomorrow to capital toyota and they are going to replace it tomorrow as well, so hopefully I will have the FJ back by tomorrow night. This whole situation is messed up, I don't even know what to do, and my dad, well, he's a bit pissed, haha. Unfortunately, we think Toyota of Cleveland might be trying to just get business, i.e. the eagerness to install the lift, the suggestion of oh, just bring it up here, and the oh, well, we aren't going to cover this problem under warranty either:flame: Actually, they stole my friend's tundra a couple years ago. They took it in for some major service, and they never gave it back...now there is a lawsuit going on with that at the moment...:ninja:
 
#10 ·
Something with it needed major service, not quite sure, but they never gave it back after the service, saying that they were waiting for a part, it never came, and they won't give it back. My friend has tried and tried to get it back, and they won't give it to them or give them their money, thus the lawsuit that is in the process of going into action.

...but that's besides the point, back to my FJ! haha
 
#12 ·
I think Bellydoc had something similar, Bellydoc, would you like to chime in? I'm sure you could be of help!:lol:

Again, thanks guys, I should have the FJ back and like new tomorrow night...i hope. I'll let ya'll know how it goes and what exactly we will be doing. Unfortunately, I don't think there is too much we can do, probably happened during offroad, not sure.

I'm just concerned about the tulip, since it connects to the differential...think anything could've happened? Although they are replacing the entire axel, would that include the differential?

Bellydoc...please help!:jester:
 
#13 · (Edited)
if they will not help just fix it youself be less than a hundred dollars for the cvaxle, bellydoc has step buy step instructions on here to do the job, easy if you take your time .And a great way to learn about your rig If I could do it so can you even if you have to buy tools you will still save money and have new tools for the next time something breaks.good luck with the dealer


p.s always ask for the parts back so you can see what happend to them yourself ,and you know they put in new stuff!!!!!
 
#14 ·
if they will not help just fix it youself be less than a hundred dollars for the cvaxle, bellydoc has step buy step instructions on here to do the job, easy if you take your time .And a great way to learn about your rig If I could do it so can you even if you have to buy tools you will still save money and have new tools for the next time something breaks.good luck with the dealer
Yea...parents wouldn't be too thrilled with that idea. Its the entire axel too, and it is coming in tomorrow, should be done by the end of the day. $710 though:worried:

I'm just worried about any future problems, but plenty of other people on here are running 3" lifts, and many the same exact as me, and haven't had this problem. And I'm sure many wheel harder than me, although I guess it just takes one thing to mess things up...
 
#16 ·
you can get the hole cv axle for less than $100.00 buck after core return.thats new boots axel cvs rebuilt eveything just need to get the seal from toyota I did mine in less than 2 hours. First time ever doing anything like this it really is pretty easy look up bellydocs write up he could not make it easier thats alot of coin for a easy fix!!! after this you be able to do the brakes also.I wouldnt be to worried about the diff to much. the next thing i would recommend is the diff drop from one of the companys on here it will put your cvs at a better angle and take of some presure from them.ALSO IS IT YOUR BOOT LEAKING OR BROKEN CV THERE ARE TBS REPORTS FOR THE LEAK IF COMING FROM THE BAND JUST A HEADS UP.if its coming from there warrenties should cover it
 
#17 ·
Yes...$710 is ALOT of money!

And from what the technition told me, the ball bearings on the tulip had binded together, and that what was the problem, and caused the inner CV's, from the axel, from the Tulip, to leak. They will be giving me a complete detailed report on it when I get it back, which should be tomorrow.

I've looked into a diff drop, but there are plenty of people that run 3" lifts without diff drops and have 0 problems. I though you only really needed a diff drop when you went above 3", but hey, a $30 investment is better than another $710 bogous fix...
 
#19 · (Edited)
when my tacoma first broke a cv years back i think it was 1600 at the dealer back then, had i done it there i didnt.
, i think the wait for an autozone or other auto parts store cv was 1 or2 weeks, i lucked out and had a friend with extra cv plus tools but i coulda been in bad shape time and money wise

my plan for the FJ will be similar to my last tacoma's i will try and pic up a spare cv or two off an FJ from forums or junkyard to replace one of mine if it breaks, then rebuild the broken one if possible, i have had bad experiences with any non-toyota cv or part for that matter that i have run in the past few years

my examples: my tacoma with 2.5 in lift
toyota cv-non wheeling lifespan was 2 to 3 years before boot tear or joint fail
autozone cv non-wheeling lifespan was about 10 to 11 months
oriely cv-- non-wheeling lifespan 28days :cowfrown:
this is not anything to do with the stores unless they built the parts but they were all new axles not refurbished bc the price wasnt that different
i started rebuilding my tacos cv's witch last 2 years as well with high angle boots and genuine toyota grease

if the dealership is not giving you anything for the broken cv i would def keep it, you can rebuild it with new boots or sell it on here(im sure oem FJ cvs are hard to come by),
this will give you a cheaper repair option for if you break it again and it will still be the toyota quality
 
#21 ·
UPDATE:

Today, the new axle came in, however, they found another problem...and actually its to my advantage. Apparently, (and this is coming from my mom, not the most knowledgable car person, but I'll be talking with the technition and the service manager tomorrow when I pick it up) something in the transfer case was missing a sleeve and had premature wear and it was a manufacturer defect, and they were able to link that to the axle failure and voila, all is under warranty and we don't have to pay a cent!:clap:

I'm picking it up tomorrow, I'll let ya'll know the details after I get it!:wave:
 
#22 ·
None of this makes any sense.

The front suspension isn't significantly changed by doing a 3 inch suspension lift kit. The control arms swing up and down through the same arc of motion as before the lift. The only thing you change by adding the lift kit is where in that arc of motion the system sits when it comes to rest. It still goes to the same high point and the same low point. The axle joints are fully capable of operating at any angle within that envelope. A 3 inch suspension lift kit does not cause joint failure. If it did, then going over a dip with a stock suspension would cause joint failure.

The front differential case is fixed in place. It bolts into a crossmember just under and behind the radiator. There are connection points on either side where the front CV axles plug into the mechanism through seals. On the driver's side, the CV axle plugs directly into the case. On the passenger side, it plugs into the far side of the ADD, or automatic differential disconnect.

The right and left CV axle are identical. there's one part number. They're sold as a unit with a central shaft and 2 different types of CV joint at each end. At the inner end, there's a tulip joint. This has a three-point male part with bearings on the ends, that inserts into a socket with 3 grooves. It can slide in and out a bit, and it can angle. It's pretty strong because it doesn't have many small parts. Theres' an axle shaft that extends from this tulip joint down to the steering knuckle, and then there's another CV joint. The outer CV is a "birfield" joint which is the same type of joint found in older solid-type Toyota front axles. It has a star shaped part as the male, and this is held in a wine-glass shaped steel cup. The star shaped part has a bearing retainer wrapped around it with 6 giant ball bearings. The cup has 6 big grooves. It is the bearing retainer ring that typically breaks, when people snap a front axle.

This is the first time in my experience with the FJ Cruiser that I've heard about any kind of inner tulip joint problem.

I can't imagine any way to blame it on the lift kit, unless it involves blaming it on the installation of the lift kit. They disassemble the suspension to install parts, and for a time, the axle shaft could be dangling on the tulip joint.

What's worse, I can't imagine any way to blame this on any issue involving the transfer case either! That's even more stupid.

The transfer case is separated from the front axle by the front driveshaft and the front differential. The driveshaft is actually capable of handling some movement, as if it's attached to a live axle. This is because the engine, transmission, and transfer case all torque a bit when you hit the gas... and the differential DOESN'T move. Therefore the driveshaft actually has a slip joint in it and some U-joints. In principle, you could move the transfer case around quite a lot and the front diff would never "know" about it... let alone the front axle shafts.

None of this makes any sense to me.

Nothing.

Nada.

Zip.

If they're telling you that they're now going to fix it under warranty, then my guess is they're having a change of heart and they're just saying stuff to try to make it make sense.

That would be fine, except once my BS detector goes off, I'm suspicious of everything else someone does... and I hate that feeling. I'm not sure what I'd do if I were in your shoes. I'd want to take the rig to another mechanic, but since it's probably up on a lift already, I'd ask them to keep it there, and physically show me all the things that they saw before they did the repairs, and ask them to show me the parts as they came off, and explain their thinking.
 
#23 ·
BellyDoc, thank you so much for that response, very helpful! I'm considering printing it out and showing it to toyota:lol:

I'm not completely sure about the transfer case issue, it was word that came through my mom and the only words she could remember were transfer and something that had to do with conversion, naturally, I assumed in broken car talk, that she meant transfer case.

I asked for a full detailed report from them, which I will be getting tomorrow, along with the entire old axle. I'll also ask to have the tech explain to me everything, and I'll use your advice on this.

I'll post up again tomorrow after I get my FJ back, so I'll have all the details and have exactly what they did, in their words, right in front of me.

Again BellyDoc, thanks! :wave:
 
#24 ·
what sucks about our add cv axles is that they are always spinning even when the t-case is in two wheel drive, a 3in lift could make the angles more severe and could be used by the dealer as an excuse not to cover it

glad your getting it fixed by the dealers wallet, i bet your breathing easier now i remember having that knot in my stomach when my parents were involved with helping me out on stuff
 
#25 ·
UPDATE:

Well for a weird turn of event I got a call from them today, and this is what they said:

There was no problem with the transfer case or the axle, and that it made no noise to their knowledge, nothing was leaking, and everything checked out fine...and this is after they told me I needed a new axle, they ordered me a new axle, and then that there was a manufacturer defect in the transfer case and order the part that was missing...:huh::flame::flame::flame:

They said that they misdiagnosed it because is was on the car lift...

So I picked it up, got the complete report, which was little more than a few jotted down notes, and took it home. Everything rode and sounded fine, but I still think I need to get it checked out by somebody who knows what their doing. My dad wants to take it up to Toyota of Cleveland, the guys who did the lift, but I'm not so sure that they will be any more knowlegable. In the end, it didn't cost me anything but three days without my baby:boohoo:
 
#32 ·
Yep,

Dispite what Bellydoc said, it is the arseholes running the stealership that decide wether or not to cover a part. Apparently they do not make much money on warranty work, and would rather rape you for $700.00 or more for the job.

If it is warrantied, they get a replacement part ($0 profit) and about 2 hours to pay thier tech, plus an hour for the paperwork. (at a lower rate than retail)
They have to save the old part for 30 days, and Toyota takes its sweet time paying warranty reimbursements. All this adds up to a BIASED service writer, and a CROOKED system.

I too got denied coverage even after I proved that the boot was cut from INSIDE and not "a stick or rock puncture" like they put in the paperwork. They flat out LIED to me and said Toyota does not cover lifted vehicles when there is no reason not to until the SERVICE WRITER jacks up your paperwork.

I got a 79.00 chineese axle and installed it myself. Probably stonger than that glass piece of crap it came with anyways. Now that I have replaced the ring and pinion and one factory taiwaneese axle, I only have to worry about the last one.:bandit:
 
#29 ·
You know, if you take it to Cleveland and that dealer talks to the one you just got it back from, it could just spread the disease of incompetence.

Does anyone know of a really good reputable 4x4 shop in his area that is familiar with Yotas?
 
#30 ·
There's a place downtown that I know of called Outback Offroad, they specialize in 4x4's...obviously, mainly land rovers and jeeps, but I'm pretty sure they are also very familiar with toyota. I might give them a call and have them check it out.
 
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