Extended Crank Starting Problem - Page 3 - Toyota FJ Cruiser Forum
Problems / Dealer Service If you are having a problem with your FJ or want to discuss a visit to the service department, post it here.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-09-2014, 07:37 PM Thread Starter
Forum Regular
 
jaymers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Montana
Posts: 170
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Re: Extended Crank Starting Problem

Quote:
Winterpeg previously said: View Post
Hmmm... when the guy at the battery place you went to tested your battery did he do a proper load test? It should NOT drop below 11 on a proper load test. Make sure he does multiple load tests in a row too.
No he didn't do multiple load tests. He only did it once. He also never had me start it. Just tested it shut off and parked. We only did it once also at home and it went down to 10 volts when trying to crank over.

Jamey

Current - 2013 Cement Trail Teams FJ, Stubby Antenna and more to come as I just purchased it

SOLD - 2008 Iceberg FJ TT, ARB Front Bumper, Rigid 20" LED Lightbar, Aeroflow Smoked Headlight Covers, OME 885/140S Struts Front, OME 895 Rear, 33" STT Tires, Pocket Fender Flares
jaymers is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-09-2014, 07:40 PM Thread Starter
Forum Regular
 
jaymers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Montana
Posts: 170
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Re: Extended Crank Starting Problem

Quote:
Winterpeg previously said: View Post
One trick I've done years ago is buy a good quality extension cord from a place you can get the cord bulk at and get however long you need it. Then buy some good quality connectors that don't freeze up in the cold.
Basically the goal would be to have a connector that unplugs with a simple tug, not one you have to fight with to get on and off. (cheaper version of this is just cutting off the extension cord end off and putting one good "female" end on).
I then wrap the cord around the pole or something.
If I happen to drive away with it (I've done it twice that I can think of) then the cord unplugs easily and stays behind.
I also wrap the block heater cord (the one from the block heater) around something solid in the engine bay so it doesn't rip out the whole cord from the engine block and have just a bit sticking out from the hood.
Worst case scenario I just have to replace the end that's sticking out... having the ends crack and needing to be replaced is common in the cold and over time. The better extension cord end helps with this as well since you aren't fighting with it to plug it in.
I know just the best place to get this set-up! I work in Electrical.

Jamey

Current - 2013 Cement Trail Teams FJ, Stubby Antenna and more to come as I just purchased it

SOLD - 2008 Iceberg FJ TT, ARB Front Bumper, Rigid 20" LED Lightbar, Aeroflow Smoked Headlight Covers, OME 885/140S Struts Front, OME 895 Rear, 33" STT Tires, Pocket Fender Flares
jaymers is offline  
post #23 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-09-2014, 07:43 PM
Forum Superstar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Central Interior, BC. Can.
Posts: 3,283
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 671 Post(s)
Re: Extended Crank Starting Problem

If your battery was low on amperage the engine cranking speed would be "much slower" than normal.... if your getting a reading of TEN anything( by the way it would be volts your amps would be in the hundreds) your FJ would not even turn over to try and start.... As I said before if you have a charger put it on over night and it will top up the condition of your battery and warm it as well . As for the five or six cranks this is pretty normal especially for Cold air, you have to realize your ECU has no way of knowing your fuel air mixture which changes big time in Cold climates, it will take a number of turns to sample the air and position the timing and throttle for cold starting... Make sure your filter is clean and the air sensor is clean.... stop worrying it to death you will end up spending hard earned money with no change in operation.
Mine takes four to six cranks in the cold and mine is an 08, worry about a weak battery when the cranking speed noticeably slows down every time you try and start the motor.... A tip for not driving away with your block heater extension power cord is take extra and wrap it around the drivers mirror that way you see it when getting in the truck.

Last edited by WaJohnZ; 01-09-2014 at 07:47 PM.
WaJohnZ is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #24 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-09-2014, 07:52 PM Thread Starter
Forum Regular
 
jaymers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Montana
Posts: 170
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Re: Extended Crank Starting Problem

Thanks I'll give it a shot. Also for the amps vs volts correction. I just realized a few posts ago I wrote amps. Wow! After working in Electrical for 12 years, I should really know the difference or I wouldn't be where I'm at everyday.

Jamey

Current - 2013 Cement Trail Teams FJ, Stubby Antenna and more to come as I just purchased it

SOLD - 2008 Iceberg FJ TT, ARB Front Bumper, Rigid 20" LED Lightbar, Aeroflow Smoked Headlight Covers, OME 885/140S Struts Front, OME 895 Rear, 33" STT Tires, Pocket Fender Flares
jaymers is offline  
post #25 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-09-2014, 08:22 PM
Forum Veteran
 
Old Geezer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Central Washington State
Posts: 452
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Re: Extended Crank Starting Problem

Quote:
WaJohnZ previously said: View Post
If your battery was low on amperage the engine cranking speed would be "much slower" than normal.... if your getting a reading of TEN anything( by the way it would be volts your amps would be in the hundreds) your FJ would not even turn over to try and start.... As I said before if you have a charger put it on over night and it will top up the condition of your battery and warm it as well . As for the five or six cranks this is pretty normal especially for Cold air, you have to realize your ECU has no way of knowing your fuel air mixture which changes big time in Cold climates, it will take a number of turns to sample the air and position the timing and throttle for cold starting... Make sure your filter is clean and the air sensor is clean.... stop worrying it to death you will end up spending hard earned money with no change in operation.
Mine takes four to six cranks in the cold and mine is an 08, worry about a weak battery when the cranking speed noticeably slows down every time you try and start the motor.... A tip for not driving away with your block heater extension power cord is take extra and wrap it around the drivers mirror that way you see it when getting in the truck.
+++1

If your engine is cranking over fine....though possibly a little bit slower when it's colder than a witches teet outside (normal for any car), then your issue is not battery related. But of course cold oil causes additional drag on internal engine components, and will "pull" more amps from your battery. Batteries store their power as amp/hours (or cold cranking amps, which is just a poor means of identifying the maximum amps the batter can provide). When you reach the maximum amp draw off the battery (as in when trying to turn over that molasses oil at -0 outside), you will see a corresponding voltage drop (I=E/R, ya know) which is normal.

I don't know how the FJ's enrich the mixture when cold, but my guess is something in that arena is your issue. Cold start injector, or something like that.

2008 Sun Fuzion 6MT
Old Geezer is offline  
post #26 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-09-2014, 10:27 PM
Forum Superstar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Central Interior, BC. Can.
Posts: 3,283
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 671 Post(s)
Re: Extended Crank Starting Problem

Quote:
jaymers previously said: View Post
Thanks I'll give it a shot. Also for the amps vs volts correction. I just realized a few posts ago I wrote amps. Wow! After working in Electrical for 12 years, I should really know the difference or I wouldn't be where I'm at everyday.
Not to worry , it's called being human if you don't make mistakes there is something wrong with you. Ha ha.
WaJohnZ is offline  
post #27 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-10-2014, 02:42 AM
Forum Superstar
 
RomaBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Maplewood, NJ
Posts: 3,231
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Re: Extended Crank Starting Problem

Any black smoke coming out of the tail pipe after long cranking period? If so, injector leak down may be an issue.

RomaBoy is offline  
post #28 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-10-2014, 08:03 AM
Forum Veteran
 
ethanexplosion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: West Jordan, UT
Posts: 449
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Garage
Re: Extended Crank Starting Problem

The fuel pump on the Fj has an internal regulator that is designed to keep pressure in the fuel lines when the vehicle is parked, so that when you go to crank it, the fuel is readily available and the engine will start. If that component in the fuel pump is bad, the fuel will bleed back into the tank, and it will take several cranks before the fuel gets all the way from the tank to the fuel rail. You probably need a new fuel pump. The fuel pump is only actuated while cranking on the Fj, unlike other vehicles where you can hear it buzz with the key on (not cranking). I mean, Im not there diagnosing it/testing things, but from the sounds of your symptoms, i'd say you need a fuel pump module. My wifes XB does the same thing during the winter. Fuel pressure is adequate when running, but it doesnt keep the lines pressurized when turned off.

'08 FJ Cruiser TTSE
'83 Toyota Celica 1jzgteVVTi swap
'08 FJ Cruiser NSSE *totaled*
ethanexplosion is offline  
post #29 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-10-2014, 08:27 AM
Forum Superstar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Central Interior, BC. Can.
Posts: 3,283
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 671 Post(s)
Re: Extended Crank Starting Problem

Quote:
ETHANEXPLOSION previously said: View Post
The fuel pump on the Fj has an internal regulator that is designed to keep pressure in the fuel lines when the vehicle is parked, so that when you go to crank it, the fuel is readily available and the engine will start. If that component in the fuel pump is bad, the fuel will bleed back into the tank, and it will take several cranks before the fuel gets all the way from the tank to the fuel rail. You probably need a new fuel pump. The fuel pump is only actuated while cranking on the Fj, unlike other vehicles where you can hear it buzz with the key on (not cranking). I mean, Im not there diagnosing it/testing things, but from the sounds of your symptoms, i'd say you need a fuel pump module. My wifes XB does the same thing during the winter. Fuel pressure is adequate when running, but it doesnt keep the lines pressurized when turned off.
Not to dispute your knowledge or thought but how does the fuel pump continue to operate if it only pressurizes the the rail system while cranking , normally the pump would energize when the key is moved to the ignition/ run position. I guess it could be making a holding relay that holds closed when the key comes off the start position . I still wonder if he is in fact having a problem and should wait a while before spending money on what may be normal operation.
WaJohnZ is offline  
post #30 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-10-2014, 09:55 AM
Forum Veteran
 
ethanexplosion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: West Jordan, UT
Posts: 449
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Garage
Re: Extended Crank Starting Problem

Quote:
WaJohnZ previously said: View Post
Not to dispute your knowledge or thought but how does the fuel pump continue to operate if it only pressurizes the the rail system while cranking , normally the pump would energize when the key is moved to the ignition/ run position. I guess it could be making a holding relay that holds closed when the key comes off the start position . I still wonder if he is in fact having a problem and should wait a while before spending money on what may be normal operation.
The fuel pump does not operate unless energized, you're correct. But there is a mechanical check valve built into the fuel pump module (housing assy) that is designed to hold enough pressure within the fuel lines for a quick start. Most american vehicles have a short fuel pump prime as soon as the key is turned on, but most Toyota fuel pumps only turn on while cranking, therefore, needing a mechanism to keep fuel readily available in the lines for a short cranking time. That component is mechanical and built into the housing so it doesnt matter if the pump itself is unplugged or missing. Again, I'm not saying this is his problem for sure, but it is likely based on what i've seen in the past on similar vehicles with similar symptoms during the same time of year.

'08 FJ Cruiser TTSE
'83 Toyota Celica 1jzgteVVTi swap
'08 FJ Cruiser NSSE *totaled*
ethanexplosion is offline  
Reply

  Toyota FJ Cruiser Forum > Toyota FJ Cruiser Discussion > Problems / Dealer Service

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Toyota FJ Cruiser Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome