Broken Ring Gear Teeth - Page 4 - Toyota FJ Cruiser Forum
Transmissions / Transfer Cases / Traction Aids This area is for discussion, questions and problems with the FJ Cruiser's gear train, including topics on A-TRAC, VSC, locking diffs, gear ratios, manual vs. AT, etc.

 54Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #31 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-24-2019, 10:39 AM
Forum Superstar
 
jamesepoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 2,460
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1088 Post(s)
Garage
Re: Broken Ring Gear Teeth

Thanks for sharing @norm356 I always enjoy your informative insight. There's more research and testing with cryo. Very little in what I posted from that 4wheel link. I was just trying to find an easy article to share the info. There's a couple methods for achieving the metallurgy treatment so it's best to consult a shop on the most appropriate method. Just like when you have mechanical parts built, it's best to go with the instructions/ shop's recommendation. The internet does not always have the answer
jamesepoop is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-24-2019, 11:46 AM
Forum Beer Miester
 
Thorn661's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: SW LA
Posts: 4,272
Mentioned: 91 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2030 Post(s)
Garage
Lifetime Supporting Member
Re: Broken Ring Gear Teeth

There were issues with some Nitro gear sets around that time frame if memory serves, I think it was concerning the hardening of the ring gear, I can’t remember where I read it but I’ll do a search on Mud to see what I find.

On another note when I bought my 4.88’s from ECGS I asked why not recommend a high end synthetic? Their reply was that they had seen failures stemming from high temps that had caused several different types of failures and the Lucas did a far better job of curtailing these temperature related failures and wouldn’t break down under the extreme stress as the synthetics would.

I lean towards this being either a design failure or simply a bad heat treat myself perhaps exacerbated and exposed by extreme heat cylcling. I may be all wet on this hypothesis but that’s where I gotta put my money.
jamesepoop and Firemedic831 like this.


Last edited by Thorn661; 03-29-2019 at 07:36 AM. Reason: Damned autocorrect
Thorn661 is offline  
post #33 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-24-2019, 12:59 PM
Forum Beer Miester
 
Thorn661's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: SW LA
Posts: 4,272
Mentioned: 91 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2030 Post(s)
Garage
Lifetime Supporting Member
Re: Broken Ring Gear Teeth

Ok I’ve been searching and I can’t find any thread with that info yet.

I would be curious if this set predated the manufacturing of nitro’s ‘thick ring gear’ sets for the 8.2? Maybe a comparison of the serial numbers with latter sets with the thicker design could yield a clue.
debFJVT likes this.

Thorn661 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-28-2019, 07:49 PM
Member
 
stephous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Rancho Palos Verdes
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Re: Broken Ring Gear Teeth

You might also call J&S Gear Co for advice. They are in Huntington Beach and helped me resolve many of my drive line problems (714) 841-4545.

Pepe Le Pew: Allterrain Model, Wrangler Ultraterrains, Magnaflow, Bilstein 5100s, Pre-cleaner, FJ off road lights, optional 16" wheels
stephous is offline  
post #35 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-28-2019, 09:24 PM
Forum Regular
 
Cruiser47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: So Cal (I E)
Posts: 198
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Re: Broken Ring Gear Teeth

[quote=Thorn661;9200918]There were issues with some Nitro gear sets around that time frame if memory serves, I think it was concerning the hardening of the ring gear, I canít remember where I read it but Iíll do a search on Mud to see what I find.

On another note when I bought my 4.88ís from ECGS I asked why not recommend a high end synthetic? Their reply was that they had seen failures stemming from high temps that had caused several different types of failures and the Lucas did a far better job of curtailing these temperature related failures and wouldnít break down under the extreme stress as the synthetics would.

I lean towards this being either a design failure or simply a bad heat treat myself perhaps exasperated and exposed by extreme heat cylcling. I may be all wet on this hypothesis but thatís where I gotta put my money.

Last edited by Cruiser47; 03-28-2019 at 09:26 PM.
Cruiser47 is offline  
post #36 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-28-2019, 09:53 PM
Forum Superstar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: San Andreas Fault Zone
Posts: 2,897
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Re: Broken Ring Gear Teeth

Regarding ring gear fracture, tooth failure (both via instantaneous overload and high-cycle fatigue) can be influenced by the accuracy of the initial gear contact pattern, or by changes in the contact pattern due to loss of bearing preload.

Setting up a new third member to get the correct gear tooth contact pattern with new gears, new bearings, and new crush sleeve is very much an art, and needs to be done by someone who has the correct tools and really understands what they are doing. Proper preload in both the pinion and carrier bearings is necessary to maintain the correct tooth contact pattern as everything "wears in". Properly setup, properly broken in, and properly lubricated, an accurately ground and properly heat-treated ring and pinion set can continue to function silently for 300K+ miles. Done wrong, and it can start to whine in 20K miles or less.

Last edited by FJtest; 03-28-2019 at 09:55 PM.
FJtest is offline  
post #37 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-28-2019, 11:10 PM
Forum Superstar
 
HERSOG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: RIVERSIDE CA
Posts: 2,160
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 363 Post(s)
Lifetime Supporting Member
Re: Broken Ring Gear Teeth

After I received the Dana 60 from ESGS, Chaseís shop, he also emailed the flowing charts for gear oil change intervals.

I have also installed a digital temp gauge to monitor the oil temperature.


Here is a copy/pasted the email from Chase.


Dennis, flow the chart and monitor the oil temp on your D60 and use 85w140 Lucas oil


4 Most Important Attributes to Gear Oil

Cling Ratio

Water separation properties

Cushioning Factor

Temperature Control

Temp Reference Chart Ė oil change frequency

170 Deg - 100,000 Miles

200 Deg - 50,000 Miles

220 Deg - 25,000 Miles

240 Deg - 12,000 Miles

260 Deg - 5,000 Miles

260-300 Deg Ė 500-1000 Miles until Temp is controlled

Differential Temp Guide

250-275 Degrees is Normal for new differentials breaking in, do not Tow or take long road trips for first 500 miles as this builds additional heat. 300 degrees is to hot and diff should be allowed to cool.

Normal operating Temp for a differential adequate for vehicle in stock applications 170-220 degrees

Normal operating Temp - Large tires, Undersized Differentials, Towing 200-250 Degrees.

Final Notes

Change your oil frequently your diff will thank you

If water is ever introduced to differential change it immediately, keep in mind that a differential that is hot and then becomes cool will naturally draw in moisture, so it is not always a water crossing that causes moisture contamination, always run a vent to a dry area and insure it breathes easily.

[email protected]



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
debFJVT, Thorn661, Lee44 and 2 others like this.

ďThere is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter.Ē
2010 TT 6MT. 4.56+ARB locker, Icon Coil Over Shocks+FOX 2.5 Rear+Icon UCA. All pro HD steering Kit. Metal Tech tube bumper with Caterpillar GTB 9000 Winch. Light Force Striker 170 HID. K&N cooled Air Intake. Ricochet Skid Plate. All-Pro Rear LCA. ARB Half Rack. Boztech Diff skid 285/75/16 Goodyear MTR, Edelbrock Exhaust. URD Short Shifter. Total Chaos LCA Skids.
And Death Valley Is The Place To Be
HERSOG is offline  
post #38 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 07:43 AM
Forum Beer Miester
 
Thorn661's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: SW LA
Posts: 4,272
Mentioned: 91 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2030 Post(s)
Garage
Lifetime Supporting Member
Re: Broken Ring Gear Teeth

Quote:
HERSOG previously said: View Post
After I received the Dana 60 from ESGS, Chaseís shop, he also emailed the flowing charts for gear oil change intervals.

I have also installed a digital temp gauge to monitor the oil temperature.


Here is a copy/pasted the email from Chase.


Dennis, flow the chart and monitor the oil temp on your D60 and use 85w140 Lucas oil


4 Most Important Attributes to Gear Oil

Cling Ratio

Water separation properties

Cushioning Factor

Temperature Control

Temp Reference Chart Ė oil change frequency

170 Deg - 100,000 Miles

200 Deg - 50,000 Miles

220 Deg - 25,000 Miles

240 Deg - 12,000 Miles

260 Deg - 5,000 Miles

260-300 Deg Ė 500-1000 Miles until Temp is controlled

Differential Temp Guide

250-275 Degrees is Normal for new differentials breaking in, do not Tow or take long road trips for first 500 miles as this builds additional heat. 300 degrees is to hot and diff should be allowed to cool.

Normal operating Temp for a differential adequate for vehicle in stock applications 170-220 degrees

Normal operating Temp - Large tires, Undersized Differentials, Towing 200-250 Degrees.

Final Notes

Change your oil frequently your diff will thank you

If water is ever introduced to differential change it immediately, keep in mind that a differential that is hot and then becomes cool will naturally draw in moisture, so it is not always a water crossing that causes moisture contamination, always run a vent to a dry area and insure it breathes easily.

[email protected]



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thatís some really great info, love that temperature gauge mod.

@Cruiser47 did your post quote get screwed up? I donít see a response from you, anyway thanks it made me notice my phone autocorrected exacerbated to exasperated.
HERSOG likes this.

Thorn661 is offline  
post #39 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 09:33 AM
トヨダ Master
 
CabinCruiser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Big Whiskey, Wyoming
Posts: 6,611
Mentioned: 135 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3283 Post(s)
Garage
Lifetime Supporting Member
Re: Broken Ring Gear Teeth

Quote:
Thorn661 previously said: View Post
There were issues with some Nitro gear sets around that time frame if memory serves, I think it was concerning the hardening of the ring gear, I canít remember where I read it but Iíll do a search on Mud to see what I find.

On another note when I bought my 4.88ís from ECGS I asked why not recommend a high end synthetic? Their reply was that they had seen failures stemming from high temps that had caused several different types of failures and the Lucas did a far better job of curtailing these temperature related failures and wouldnít break down under the extreme stress as the synthetics would.

I lean towards this being either a design failure or simply a bad heat treat myself perhaps exacerbated and exposed by extreme heat cylcling. I may be all wet on this hypothesis but thatís where I gotta put my money.
I remember talking to you about this prior to your gear swap. Some of the earlier Nitro sets were improperly heat treated and led to some major failures. We've seen as many as 6 sets that I can remember that failed within the 1st 20k miles. ECGS does require the use of Lucas 85w-140 non-synthetic oil which works well with their tight tolerance setups. They also will build units without new bearings. A lot of shops do this, although I don't know why. Saving $$ now usually means paying for it on the back end so just do it right the 1st time. I'm suspecting that in this case improper setup, or improper heat treating to the gears, or break in, etc.

Something that a lot of customers don't understand also is that it is very hard to break in a front R&P in a 4 wheel drive. The rear will take the load of the whole vehicle in 2wd, but only half in 4wd. Something that I try to do is break in the rear first and then remove the rear driveshaft and run in only FWD for 500 miles while breaking in the front. This way when pulling the rear around on the coast side of the gear, the rear is already broke in, and the R&Ps break in with the full weight of the vehicle on them. This isn't practical for most people but it is the best way if possible.
HERSOG, Thorn661 and jamesepoop like this.


"Silence is Golden......Duct Tape is Silver"

Solitude Allows One to Reflect While Others are Reacting...

Member of the month-October 2017
CabinCruiser is offline  
post #40 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 10:00 AM
Forum Superstar
 
jamesepoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 2,460
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1088 Post(s)
Garage
Re: Broken Ring Gear Teeth

Great info so far!

Last edited by jamesepoop; 03-29-2019 at 10:59 AM.
jamesepoop is offline  
Reply

  Toyota FJ Cruiser Forum > Toyota FJ Cruiser Discussion > Transmissions / Transfer Cases / Traction Aids

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Toyota FJ Cruiser Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



  Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bought a regeard FJ and now screwed LTipton Transmissions / Transfer Cases / Traction Aids 78 03-03-2017 05:38 PM
WTB - MT6 Transmission (not t-case) bandi Want to Buy (FJ Related Items) 19 08-19-2013 09:32 PM
replace stock 4Lo for Marlin Crawler gear MAD MARK Transmissions / Transfer Cases / Traction Aids 87 12-13-2012 05:36 PM
2010 Lone Star Toyota Jamboree January 15-17, 2010 WILSON Texas 943 01-23-2010 11:50 PM
Cracked ring gear..... Rubicon Problems / Dealer Service 11 02-13-2007 11:39 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome