Internal Hydraulic Slave Cylinder upgrade for 6 speeds - Page 3 - Toyota FJ Cruiser Forum
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post #21 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 08:05 AM
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Re: Internal Hydraulic Slave Cylinder upgrade for 6 speeds

Norm made a great point with the fact that there have been numerous failures in the OE system, placing extra wear on the input tube in which the TOB slides back and forth. I have seen this time and time again in other makes, but have not researched it much on this platform. I simply don't see it on Tacomas of FJs. Having said that, I don't get a lot of trans/clutch failures in my shop, probably because they are Toyotas and are simply reliable in most ways. This would be a good upgrade for those looking for a solution to a very expensive replacement/repair.

I am the shop owner by the way (you asked), and we do work on most brands (and we are a Toytec dealer and installer, and a tire dealer), but we get good market share of Toyota work. We are ASE Certified and have a good reputation in our small, but ample community, and have customers that drive 200 miles, plus, to have us perform the work. That says something about the quality of work that I count on from my techs and myself. Many of my customers are firemen who absolutely depend on our work. I don't cut corners and will not install parts that aren't proven. I usually try out new products on my own vehicles before recommending to others. Too bad I don't have a manual transmission FJ, huh? Yet!

I only wanted to share my objective opinion for those who feel like they "need" to make this upgrade, when the OE system may never have failure. We spend a lot of money upgrading our FJs and some things just aren't necessary to achieve reliability. As far as the early model differential failures, most can be attributed to over using a drastically heavy platform on the 8" ring & pinion. In stock form they are just about adequate, but load them down with heavy bumpers, oversized (aired down) tires, lots of gear, fridges, roof racks, etc, and the limits can certainly be pushed to the point of failure. Hence the 8.2" in the later models. Most of the failures I've seen with the 8" come from the T100 and early Tundra platforms, which can easily be overloaded to the point of R&P failure. The 8" is simply not designed for heavy abuse in heavier platforms. In mini trucks, they are darn near indestructible.
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post #22 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 08:48 AM
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Re: Internal Hydraulic Slave Cylinder upgrade for 6 speeds

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Of course! I just really want other FJ owners with manual transmission to experience this upgrade. To be honest after doing research into issues with the OE clutch fork, throwout bearing, and pivot ball and their potential weak points and what seems like a high possibility of failure, I am a little bit more at ease with this setup. Now I know it's an aftermarket part so it hasn't gone through the type of testing the OE setup has, but I do know that these Clutch Masters hydraulic slave cylinders are used in some serious applications and from what they have told me they have never had a critical failure of any of the parts that make up the cylinder. These are found in some of the top tier drag cars, drift cars, and circuit cars that put these internal slave cylinders through some serious beating. So if it can last for hundreds of passes in a 7 second drag car, or several thousand clutch kicks in a professional drift car, then I think it'll be more than fine in the FJ! I also know that the feeling of my clutch system has been vastly improved over the factory setup so that's a plus for my in itself.
I don't agree with the "more than adequate for an FJ" comment. I own a 7 second drag car with a tilton hydraulic throw out set up behind a 3 disc carbon clutch so I have experience with these setups. There is no way I would equate drag racing or any other motorsports to the hell that an OEM application will put this thru.
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post #23 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-22-2019, 09:57 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Internal Hydraulic Slave Cylinder upgrade for 6 speeds

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Norm made a great point with the fact that there have been numerous failures in the OE system, placing extra wear on the input tube in which the TOB slides back and forth. I have seen this time and time again in other makes, but have not researched it much on this platform. I simply don't see it on Tacomas of FJs. Having said that, I don't get a lot of trans/clutch failures in my shop, probably because they are Toyotas and are simply reliable in most ways. This would be a good upgrade for those looking for a solution to a very expensive replacement/repair.

I am the shop owner by the way (you asked), and we do work on most brands (and we are a Toytec dealer and installer, and a tire dealer), but we get good market share of Toyota work. We are ASE Certified and have a good reputation in our small, but ample community, and have customers that drive 200 miles, plus, to have us perform the work. That says something about the quality of work that I count on from my techs and myself. Many of my customers are firemen who absolutely depend on our work. I don't cut corners and will not install parts that aren't proven. I usually try out new products on my own vehicles before recommending to others. Too bad I don't have a manual transmission FJ, huh? Yet!

I only wanted to share my objective opinion for those who feel like they "need" to make this upgrade, when the OE system may never have failure. We spend a lot of money upgrading our FJs and some things just aren't necessary to achieve reliability. As far as the early model differential failures, most can be attributed to over using a drastically heavy platform on the 8" ring & pinion. In stock form they are just about adequate, but load them down with heavy bumpers, oversized (aired down) tires, lots of gear, fridges, roof racks, etc, and the limits can certainly be pushed to the point of failure. Hence the 8.2" in the later models. Most of the failures I've seen with the 8" come from the T100 and early Tundra platforms, which can easily be overloaded to the point of R&P failure. The 8" is simply not designed for heavy abuse in heavier platforms. In mini trucks, they are darn near indestructible.
As I was researching for a solution to my squeaky throwout bearing I was quite shocked how many failures there seemed to be with the aluminum snout. On my quest to find a better solution then the OE setup I also visited with a local Toyota specialist repair shop here in town and they confirmed that they see failures on these transmission quite frequently. Not at the level where everyone should be concerned, but enough to warrant some thought into a possible better system. They did also say they have seen the pivot ball sheer totally off as well an unfortunate amount of times on those RA60/61 transmissions. This was about the point where I realized that I just didn't want to simply replace the throwout bearing, pivot ball and slave cylinder per Toyota's TSB but that I wanted to find a better solution.

And as far as the comment I made about the rear end I was just focusing on the point of the "What if" question of something failing while were out on the trails. Any number of things could go wrong at any given time for any number of reasons, and being a shop owner I'm sure you are fully aware of that! We certainly don't let that stop us from venturing out and exploring in our rigs. And if did we just wouldn't leave the safety zone of our towns and highways!

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I don't agree with the "more than adequate for an FJ" comment. I own a 7 second drag car with a tilton hydraulic throw out set up behind a 3 disc carbon clutch so I have experience with these setups. There is no way I would equate drag racing or any other motorsports to the hell that an OEM application will put this thru.
That sounds like a serious setup. What kind of car and drag racing do you partake in!? Just curious why you think an internal hydraulic release bearing isn't adequate for the FJ. You trust and rely on a similar Tilton setup to get you down the track, can you expand on your thoughts of why you don't think it is an good setup for these rigs? Have you had issues with your setup in the drag car? I have previous experience with these hydraulic release bearings setup in drift cars and cars setup for circuit racing/time attack and have never ran into any issues with them. If there is any platform that is going to put every part of their driveline through hell it's a properly setup high powered drift car. I'm just wondering what kind of hell you think a daily driver and off road rig like we use our FJs for would make for a bad choice for these hydraulic slave cylinders.
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post #24 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-23-2019, 08:22 AM
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Re: Internal Hydraulic Slave Cylinder upgrade for 6 speeds

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That sounds like a serious setup. What kind of car and drag racing do you partake in!? Just curious why you think an internal hydraulic release bearing isn't adequate for the FJ. You trust and rely on a similar Tilton setup to get you down the track, can you expand on your thoughts of why you don't think it is an good setup for these rigs? Have you had issues with your setup in the drag car? I have previous experience with these hydraulic release bearings setup in drift cars and cars setup for circuit racing/time attack and have never ran into any issues with them. If there is any platform that is going to put every part of their driveline through hell it's a properly setup high powered drift car. I'm just wondering what kind of hell you think a daily driver and off road rig like we use our FJs for would make for a bad choice for these hydraulic slave cylinders.
25.5 chassis S15 Nissan Sylvia, 1200Hp 2.4L, Lenco CS3 transmission. I've raced in the old NOPI series, Sony Xplod, and even NHRA comp eliminator. There are a couple problem with these internal setups. You either have to compensate for clutch wear thru adjustment, or have a self adjusting set up that rides on the fingers just like OEM, which negates your cited advantage. You are not constantly riding the clutch in drifting like crawling and even stop and go traffic. Also not a big fan of Clutchmasters. They are way down the list when it comes to clutch companies.
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post #25 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-23-2019, 12:41 PM
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Re: Internal Hydraulic Slave Cylinder upgrade for 6 speeds

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I have previous experience with these hydraulic release bearings setup in drift cars and cars setup for circuit racing/time attack and have never ran into any issues with them.
That's cool, my kid is a drifter.



Wait, not that kind. This kind:





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post #26 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-05-2019, 10:24 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Internal Hydraulic Slave Cylinder upgrade for 6 speeds

A little update on this kit.

Clutch Masters has asked me to organize a group buy for their internal hydraulic release bearing, or internal hydraulic slave cylinder. I'm trying to figure out the best way to organize a proper group buy through the proper channels on this forum but not quite sure the best way to go about that. Any input on that would be greatly appreciated! I've posted this over on Tacomaworld in a thread that was created over there for this hydraulic release bearing kit and there is already about 10 people who are interested and have asked to be added to the group buy.

N16078-H (Tacoma/FJ RA60) - Clutch Masters



There's been some good discussion on this setup on this forum and over on Tacomaworld as well. I've been running the Clutch Masters internal slave cylinder for about 800 miles now and it's performed flawlessly in every situation I've put it through its paces from slow speed crawling on difficult terrain to high speed fast shifting, it really has changed the way the clutch feels in my rig for the better. If you want to go check out the discussion on Tacomaworld here's the link:

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/...en-fix.624299/

The way the group buy will go is like this...If we can get 10 people to commit to purchasing the kit Clutch Masters will knock the price down for those people from $475 to $425. If at least 15 people commit to purchasing a kit they will knock the price down to $375. I figure we'll let the group buy run for a couple of weeks to see what kind of interest we can get on this. As I mentioned I also posted this group buy info over on Tacomaworld and the people who commit over there will count towards the final group buy number as well.

Once we have enough people who have committed to the group buy, I will get a discount code from the guys at Clutch Masters and distribute them via PMs to those who have committed. You can then go to their website and purchase the kit and use the coupon for it.

As a bonus Clutch Masters has offered to throw in a free oil cap if we are able to hit 20 people on this group buy. I had them make one for the 1GR engine. Will be available with custom laser engraving and several anodized color options including black, red, blue, gold, orange, purple, green. Alternatively if you don't want to get in on the group buy for the internal hydraulic release bearing, but want an oil cap, if we can get 10 people to go for an oil cap, Clutch Masters will do them for $30.



Also there has been some requests from Tacomaworld about asking if Clutch Masters would also do a discount on a clutch kit at the same time which I think can be arranged as well. As I briefly went over earlier in this thread I am running the FX100 series clutch in my FJ and it paired with the internal hydraulic slave setup is a dream to drive. If some of you interested are supercharged and want to consider something with a little more clamping force, they definitely have options.

Products - Single Disc Clutch Kits - Page 1 - Clutch Masters

I think we can still start organizing the group buy if people just shoot me a PM and I will keep track of that info.

So that's the run down, let me know if anyone has any questions or suggestions!

Last edited by 406cruiser; 09-05-2019 at 10:33 PM.
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post #27 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-08-2019, 11:06 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Internal Hydraulic Slave Cylinder upgrade for 6 speeds

Just an update for everyone. At the moment, between Facebook groups, this forum and the tacomaworld forum, it's looking like we've got about 23 people interested in the group buy so the price will be $375 and everyone will get an oil cap! Going to let the group buy run just a few days more to see if we can get some more people on board.

Tomorrow I'm going to touch base with Clutch Masters and see what they think they can do for pricing on a combo kit with a clutch included and report back with what the price would be on that setup.
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post #28 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-08-2019, 03:29 PM
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Re: Internal Hydraulic Slave Cylinder upgrade for 6 speeds

406, PM sent, please include me in the group buy, if it is not too late to do so!

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post #29 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-08-2019, 05:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Internal Hydraulic Slave Cylinder upgrade for 6 speeds

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406, PM sent, please include me in the group buy, if it is not too late to do so!
Not too late at all! Got your name added to to the list. Going to chat with the guys at Clutch Masters and see how long they want to let the group buy run for but I think since we hit the numbers we had setup pretty quick I presume they'll want to kind of wrap things up so they can get focused on putting all the kits together and sent out! I'll be in touch and keep everyone updated.
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post #30 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-09-2019, 05:48 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Internal Hydraulic Slave Cylinder upgrade for 6 speeds

Another update on all this. I chatted with the guys at Clutch Masters today and because of all the interest they are going to give $100 off a clutch kit on top of the $100 off of the hydro release bearing.

I should have a code for everyone shortly once we get this group buy all wrapped up and all the details sorted out with CM. I will PM everyone the code once everything is finalized here in the next day or so it sounds like!

As I mentioned in the first post on this thread, I'm running the FX100 clutch and have been incredibly happy with how it's performed alongside the hydro release bearing!
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