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Discussion Starter #1
OK all you manly man manual mandingos that don't want any electronics on your rig, do my wussified panzy electronically assisted AT ass a quick favor. I imagine you all have watched this video many times before, but go back and look at the Rubicon video on the Toyota FJ Cruiser website. Look for the video showing the FJC going up a steep, slick granite rock face in the Granite Bowl as in the screen shot below.

I could be wrong but I think this shows the A-TRAC system in action. Watch the front tires as they start to spin and then are gently braked to maintain traction. That's either the driver alternately pulsing the brakes and the accelerator to manage the wheel spin or it's the beloved ATRAC. I'm willing to bet it's the ATRAC in action and I'm also willing to bet all you manly manual types would have never gotten up that slick rock like that in your bare bones rigs.

Give me all those acronyms. The more the better.
 

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Pancho said:
I could be wrong but I think this shows the A-TRAC system in action.
Put Torsen front & rear differential and you will have the same result without computer, brake destruction, freaking noise. Only 100% pure mechanics...

Pretty sure the MT6 with the lower crawl ratio will do the same without clutch intervention.


If I have to be controlled, better be by my wife than by stupid computer software...
 

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Okay, Pancho - you got me there. But is it really necessary to have a flight data recorder, four different air bag control computers, sensors up the wazoo? I mean c'mon. There has to be a happy medium. You can leave the atrac, but ABS/VSC, I am entirely capable of operating Power Brakes (weren't those the good ole days) and I don't need a computer trying to correct my slide - especially if it were intentional.
 

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By the way, Active Traction on my 4Runner works well, AT 5 very well to and all other computer braking, skid control to.

It’s just a mater to have the pleasure to feel the car that I don’t have with my 4Runner because of all computer stuff that I don’t want and can’t switch off!
 

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Is there any benefit to having A-TRAC for on road driving? For ATs it only works while in 4x4 - is that correct. Sorry I am old school when it comes to 4x4 - no computer on my 4Runner or FZJ80.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I thought I might get a rise out of some of you with this. Wakesurfer's big on that Torsen isn't he, although I'm skeptical that it would perform the same in this kid of low speed, high torque situation.

So mechanical good, electrical bad? How about an electronically engaged mechanic locker? Or even better, an electronically activated, pnuematically engaged, mechanical locker??
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The ATRAC just kicks in at low speeds when some wheel slippage is needed or allowable, as in this video. For on road at higher speeds Toyota's TRAC system is used. It's the same system used on all their other vehicles. And I think it's the same principle for both just different software tuned for different conditions. It's all mysterious computer software gadgetry that has a mind of its own.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
BTW, my 1954 Willys jeep has a little Spicer 3-speed MT. No synchronizer for first gear. If you try to slip it into first w/o coming to a complete stop it growls a very unhappy growl. Oh, and no ATRAC either.
 

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Pancho said:
I thought I might get a rise out of some of you with this. Wakesurfer's big on that Torsen isn't he, although I'm skeptical that it would perform the same in this kid of low speed, high torque situation.
Ok, where I got Torsen info? Audi use Torsen in their Quattro system for AWD since 80' and I consider this company good on AWD (center differential).

Toyota use rear and front Torsen differential on their MEGA Cruiser (shame to tell you Hummer H1 use also rear and front Torsen). Seem very good configuration for Off-road low speed...

Impossible for me to love computer car, I have my own computer company and we are software developper... In my job ok, not in my car...
 

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That's where I am as well. I work in IT, electronics sometimes take a dump - that's why I have a job - so I don't trust the electronics in automobiles. I was also the last person in the department to agree to direct deposit. It's all fun and games either way until your computer system takes a crap. Then you're screwed.
 

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Percy said:
That's where I am as well. I work in IT, electronics sometimes take a dump - that's why I have a job - so I don't trust the electronics in automobiles. I was also the last person in the department to agree to direct deposit. It's all fun and games either way until your computer system takes a crap. Then you're screwed.

Its why we have the same opinion on computer... Check my post on the Side curtain threads, probably you will appreciate as a person that understands the danger with software written by human, human that makes errors and make them human...
 

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Me? I like well-written software. Mostly because I can be a bonehead and realize the computer is smarter than me most of the time. I get distracted, start day dreaming and oops...I just NEEDED those ABS brakes. (Doesnt happen often but admittedly has happened before.)
 

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Must not have had the rear axle locked....

Quite frankly, what that FJ is going over isn't much of an obstacle for a real offroad rig. You can go over that kind of stuff for hours on end in Moab. Throw a couple of 10 inch ledges and 18 inch wide cracks in the rock face and see what happens.

I'd take that rock with my unlocked '97 4Runner in a heartbeat.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
I'm sure you could moabite. So educate me, there aren't any wet slippery granite rocks around the Houston area. How would you manage wheel spin in your unlocked '97 4Runner on this wet granite obstacle that looks slick as nasal mucus? And what is a "real offroad rig?" And wasn't it an unlocked 4Runner that slipped off the side of Lion's Back a few years ago? I guess the driver fits into the equation at some point too.
 

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Check out the 4wheel Parts Magazine's latest article on the FJ. They said that the control system worked better than the rear locker. I want the control system and the locker, however I wonder about the length of wires and sensors when doing the lift. Especially six inches or more.
 

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XJTODD said:
Check out the 4wheel Parts Magazine's latest article on the FJ. They said that the control system worked better than the rear locker. I want the control system and the locker, however I wonder about the length of wires and sensors when doing the lift. Especially six inches or more.
can't lift the fjc more than 3" or you're run into problems. IFS front means limited lift. Now get a TM or similar with the subframe addition then what's the point? you lose ground clearance and it'll be just like a 3" lift from the bottom. Yes you'll be able to add bigger boogers though. The biggest problem you'll run into are the rears as nobody makes a 6" setup nor will they.

Sorry.

If you want both then get the MT as it'll come with both. The problem is that both systems won't work in conjunction with eachother. Meaning either the ATRAC is on or rear locker is on. If you want both to work together, get the AT which does not come with the rear locker and add the ARB RD23 air locker . This way you get both systems working together. This has been trail tested and works flawlessly. No worries on sensors as the sensors are inside the ABS lines which run along side the lower control arms (rear).

Good luck
 

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Pancho said:
OK all you manly man manual mandingos that don't want any electronics on your rig, do my wussified panzy electronically assisted AT ass a quick favor.
I'm willing to bet it's the ATRAC in action and I'm also willing to bet all you manly manual types would have never gotten up that slick rock like that in your bare bones rigs. Give me all those acronyms. The more the better.
Convenience package= about $1800
Upgrade package 1= $2500
Total = about $4200

front ARB air locker = about $750
installation and compressor = about $500
total = about $1250

total savings = about $3000

being in control of your vehicle instead of the vehicle being in control of you = Priceless.
 
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