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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hi guys

I have a kenwood ddx head unit in my car, with blaupunkt speakers in the doors and stock tweeters in the dash-it sounds like ****, def. worse then stock set up

I'm certain that my speakers Ohm rating are not what I need for an aftermarket head unit.

QUESTION TO THE AUDIO EXPERTS HERE
1. do I need 4ohm speakers for the doors?
2. if yes, what ohm rating for the tweeters?
 

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If your Kenwood head unit has a built in amp, then start by checking your manual for speaker impedance i.e. 4 ohms. Its important to match the speaker impedance with the amp. Most head units and amps today are normally rated at 4 ohms.
 

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I agree with tigger the problem with some tweeters is they won't even show an impedance sometimes. I once had a 2ohm stable 4 channel amp (without crossover) and still couldn't get the 4ohm tweeter and 4ohm 6.5 door speaker to get into 2ohm, always registered 4ohm so no extra power. I ended up fabing a 4" 4ohm speaker with plastic plate where the tweeter was, got into 2ohm and realized it was for bridging subs only 2ohm .. Damm it sucked being 16. lol.

Most STOCK car speakers are 8 ohm most after market speakers are 4ohm except subs their all over the place. I once had dual 6ohm subs jlw6 but times three you could run them in 4ohm or 1 ohm which was great when the class d amps came out
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
If your Kenwood head unit has a built in amp, then start by checking your manual for speaker impedance i.e. 4 ohms. Its important to match the speaker impedance with the amp. Most head units and amps today are normally rated at 4 ohms.
my 6x9's are rated at 2ohm.....

ddx512 I dont think it has a built in amp, but I need to start looking for one
 

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ddx512 has built in 50wx4 amp. not hugely powerful but should drive your speakers enough for it to sound OK. Just OK, not great, but certainly not crappy. Your problem are the speakers at 2ohm. You need to get 4 ohm speakers/tweeters.Get some component speakers, put the mids in the doors and the tweeters up in the dash.
 

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hi guys

I have a kenwood ddx head unit in my car, with blaupunkt speakers in the doors and stock tweeters in the dash-it sounds like ****, def. worse then stock set up

I'm certain that my speakers Ohm rating are not what I need for an aftermarket head unit.

QUESTION TO THE AUDIO EXPERTS HERE
1. do I need 4ohm speakers for the doors?
2. if yes, what ohm rating for the tweeters?
How did you wire everything up?

Did you attempt to use the stock wiring and just replace the speakers? If so, both pairs are being run via the same signal in parallel, which is making your head unit see a 2ohm load. This will cause it to work harder, in turn usually causing clipping and thus your "sounds like ****".

If you ran the front signals to the tweeters and the rear to the door speakers, you should be showing a 4 ohm load to the head unit for each set. This is better, but you'll then be sending a full range signal to the tweeters, causing them to try and reproduce sounds out of their "forte". You'd want to add resistors (I.E. Bass Blockers) to the signal to create a High Pass Filter (allows high frequencies to pass, while blocking lower frequencies).

Or if you did something completely different with your install, let us know and maybe we can help you identify the problem.
 

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Did you upgrade the 6x9 with aftermarket ones? usually aftermarket ones come with build in tweeters so if you keep the tweeters in the dash it will sound really bad, when i had my tundra i was going to upgrade the door speakers and leave the tweeters in the dash but the guy at car toys told me there would be too much high pitch and would sound bad, usually you just disconnect the dash tweeters and it sounds alot better
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
How did you wire everything up?

Did you attempt to use the stock wiring and just replace the speakers? If so, both pairs are being run via the same signal in parallel, which is making your head unit see a 2ohm load. This will cause it to work harder, in turn usually causing clipping and thus your "sounds like ****".

If you ran the front signals to the tweeters and the rear to the door speakers, you should be showing a 4 ohm load to the head unit for each set. This is better, but you'll then be sending a full range signal to the tweeters, causing them to try and reproduce sounds out of their "forte". You'd want to add resistors (I.E. Bass Blockers) to the signal to create a High Pass Filter (allows high frequencies to pass, while blocking lower frequencies).

Or if you did something completely different with your install, let us know and maybe we can help you identify the problem.
well I just connected my headunit to stock wires, I assumed they go to the front doors and then to the tweeters, am I right?

I'm looking for a 6x9 components, it's either gonna be infinity cappa, mbquart, or kicker

I know jack s..t about speakers so somebody please tell me what to buy :)



Did you upgrade the 6x9 with aftermarket ones? usually aftermarket ones come with build in tweeters so if you keep the tweeters in the dash it will sound really bad, when i had my tundra i was going to upgrade the door speakers and leave the tweeters in the dash but the guy at car toys told me there would be too much high pitch and would sound bad, usually you just disconnect the dash tweeters and it sounds alot better
yup, got aftermarket 3way 6x9's, I used tape to block the tweeters on 6x9s and turned off treble and mids on the head unit...:mecry:
 

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well I just connected my headunit to stock wires, I assumed they go to the front doors and then to the tweeters, am I right?
Bad assumption. The stock setup is wired for the speakers Toyota includes. The two door speakers are rated at 4 ohms for 20 watts. The dash speakers are rated at 8 ohms for 9 watts. (Unless you have a 2011, in which they have some new options).

Since you hooked everything up using the factory wiring, you're essentially showing your head unit a 1.6 ohm load (2 ohm 6x9s and 8 ohm tweeters). This is going to cause it to push harder than normal, to deliver more power. A it is harder on your head unit, and B - your stock tweeters are not going to like the high power.

I used tape to block the tweeters on 6x9s and turned off treble and mids on the head unit...:mecry:
This is going to be another cause of your bad sound. You'd be MUCH better off by taking off the tape you put over the tweeter (likely rattling around causing lots of noise), and disconnecting the dash speakers completely. And you need to turn the treble and mids back up. If anything, you should be turning the bass down.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Bad assumption. The stock setup is wired for the speakers Toyota includes. The two door speakers are rated at 4 ohms for 20 watts. The dash speakers are rated at 8 ohms for 9 watts. (Unless you have a 2011, in which they have some new options).

Since you hooked everything up using the factory wiring, you're essentially showing your head unit a 1.6 ohm load (2 ohm 6x9s and 8 ohm tweeters). This is going to cause it to push harder than normal, to deliver more power. A it is harder on your head unit, and B - your stock tweeters are not going to like the high power.

Tray this is already getting complicated to me ;)

Ok once I get my component speakers, how should I wire them up? (keep it simple)


oh and right now there's hardly any bass coming from the 6x9's, mostly mids and highs...
 

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You will not get much bass at all out of 6x9's, not only because there isn't enough cone, but the way they sit in the doors. Fit an 8" mid bass woofer in them, and drop 3.5" of 4" in the dash... should be plenty.

By the way...ALL 12V speakers are 4 Ohm
 

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Tray this is already getting complicated to me ;)

Ok once I get my component speakers, how should I wire them up? (keep it simple)
Well, without knowing exactly which set you are getting, this is a very broad question. However, most component sets are pretty similar, at least in idea.

You'll want to run new wiring from your head unit to the crossover. This crossover will then split the signal. One pair of leads heading to the tweeter, and the other set to the mid-range. As much as I hate manuals, you'll want to read yours to determine exactly which terminals are which. You will then need to find a place to mount the crossover, as well as mount the speakers themselves.

oh and right now there's hardly any bass coming from the 6x9's, mostly mids and highs...
A few reasons for that. Our doors do not make for a great seal behind the speakers. If you want a tighter response from your 6x9s, you'll need to create a good seal against the door, then you'd want some sort of baffle behind. Whether it be one of the foam bowl-like baffles, or whether you go nuts and dynomat the entire inside door skin, either would help.

Another reason - until you go mid-bass, woofer, or subwoofer, you shouldn't expect a whole lot of bass out of your speakers. 6x9s are meant more for a full range of sound, not to pound out the bass.

Of course, you could always have the polarity reversed on one them causing them to be out of phase with the other speakers as well (this always results in a horrible sound). Again, not 100% certian how you connected the speakers to the stock wiring, but if you put the + signal to the - lead on one side, but did it properly on the other, you could end up with the "cat-fight in a garbage can" sound.


By the way...ALL 12V speakers are 4 Ohm
Oh how I so wish this were true. This would make life so much easier when it comes to decisions on speakers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well, without knowing exactly which set you are getting, this is a very broad question. However, most component sets are pretty similar, at least in idea.

You'll want to run new wiring from your head unit to the crossover. This crossover will then split the signal. One pair of leads heading to the tweeter, and the other set to the mid-range. As much as I hate manuals, you'll want to read yours to determine exactly which terminals are which. You will then need to find a place to mount the crossover, as well as mount the speakers themselves.



A few reasons for that. Our doors do not make for a great seal behind the speakers. If you want a tighter response from your 6x9s, you'll need to create a good seal against the door, then you'd want some sort of baffle behind. Whether it be one of the foam bowl-like baffles, or whether you go nuts and dynomat the entire inside door skin, either would help.

Another reason - until you go mid-bass, woofer, or subwoofer, you shouldn't expect a whole lot of bass out of your speakers. 6x9s are meant more for a full range of sound, not to pound out the bass.

Of course, you could always have the polarity reversed on one them causing them to be out of phase with the other speakers as well (this always results in a horrible sound). Again, not 100% certian how you connected the speakers to the stock wiring, but if you put the + signal to the - lead on one side, but did it properly on the other, you could end up with the "cat-fight in a garbage can" sound.




Oh how I so wish this were true. This would make life so much easier when it comes to decisions on speakers.
hey, thanks for your imput

I decided to get this eclipse set 5.25"

 

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Take it easy on the OP. This ohms and the way factory setups are these days will make anyone's head spin. OP the easiest thing to do is to go and buy 50ft of speaker wire(no higher than 14 gauge) and completely eliminate the factory wiring. The 6x9's can be made into 4 ohm by soldering a 2 ohm resistor in line with the positive terminal(someone correct me if this can no longer be done). Then since you already bought the components you may as well run wire to the back seats and install them in the rear seat area. Do a search on how to do that, a few have done it including myself. Disconnecting all stock connections creates less of a pain to work with.
 

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hi guys

I have a kenwood ddx head unit in my car, with blaupunkt speakers in the doors and stock tweeters in the dash-it sounds like ****, def. worse then stock set up

I definitely can recommend the setup I installed two weeks ago. Posted here:

http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/stereo-electronics-electrical/122575-2011-audio-mod.html

Sounds great even with my factory head end unit. With yours having more power, it should sound even better. The 6x9's put out plenty of bass. Balance the highs and mids as described in the post. I opted NOT to use an adapter to put smaller round speakers in the larger oval 6x9 holes, and I recommend NOT doing that unless you are going to have a subwoofer. A pair of 5 1/4's with no sub isn't going to do the job. Also, separates definitely are not necessary. See the post I linked to using coaxials. Three way door/dash/deck speakers are not even a good idea as far as human hearing, the frequency content of music, and the laws of physics are concerned. Most three way door/dash/deck speakers are a waste of money and poor engineering that appeals to the incorrect perception that a three way speaker always is better than two way speaker, and many three ways end up being too "bright" with too much treble because they have both a tweeter and a super tweeter. Very little of the musical range that we listen too is that high in frequency. The obstruction caused by mounting this extra hardware in the middle of the mid/bass driver can almost completely block it. Also, a typical car audio mid/bass driver is completely capable of running smoothly from 60 to around 3000 Hz, where a single tweeter can take everything from there up. Most people lose their hearing above 15000 Hz by middle age, especially car stereo addicts and people who work in noisy environments. Yes, highs are important, but a three way system in a car just isn't necessary unless you are talking about a subwoofer, mid/woofer, tweeter combination, NOT a mid/woofer, tweeter, super tweeter system like 5 1/4" three way separates or three way 6x9's.

Be absolutely certain that you have all of the speakers wired in phase, in other words, + to + and - to - on all speakers. If you get one of them wired + to - by mistake, it will sound terrible.

By the way, capacitors in series with a speaker block low frequencies (bass), inductors a/k/a coils in series with a speaker block high frequencies (treble), resistors in parallel with a speaker make it less loud (attenuation) and waste some power and lower impedence, and resistors wired in series with a speaker make it less loud (attenuation) and waste some power and raise impedence.

Sealed "baffles" behind speakers that are not designed for them will kill your low bass sound. Most car door/dash/rear deck speakers are designed to operate "free air" or "infinite baffle" meaning they are not designed to have an enclosure behind them like the foam ones you see online or in some car audio shops. Technically the "baffle" is your interior door panel where you attach the speaker. The back of the speaker is open to the air inside the door, which is the way most car audio door/dash/deck speakers are designed to operate. If you put those sealed foam enclosures behind these speakers and seal them up, you will kill your low bass completely. A speaker resonates in tune with the air space behind it. Too little air space for the speaker causes this resonance to rise in frequency, and you may gain some efficiency (volume) but you will lose quality (a "Q" that is too high), and you will lose the low frequencies. The only time a sealed enclosure should be placed behind a speaker is when, 1) The speaker is designed to be used in a sealed enclosure, and 2) You have performed the correct mathematical calculations to find the correct enclosure size to obtain the proper balance between the "Q factor" of the speaker-enclosure system vs. low frequency cutoff.

Other speakers, not designed for use in car door/dash/deck locations, specifically subwoofers, may operate in three ways, depending on the design of the speaker. Some are designed for free air use (no enclosure). Some are best placed in sealed enclosures. Most are designed for ported enclosures where the "alignment" is a series of mathematical calculations that provide the best resonance for the speaker while also using the port(s) to augment the low bass at a certain tuned frequency.

So, don't use enclosures behind your door/dash/deck speakers. DO use some fiberglass insulation behind your dash speakers (3 1/2's) though. It helps seal all the holes and gaps around the speaker and helps prevent the back wave from the speaker from bouncing around with various reflections coming back from inside the dash. You may want to use some DynaMat (see below) applied to the metal surfaces inside the doors to make sure the metal is dead as a doornail and not vibrating at all, but it is not necessary.

DynaMat is a wonderful product, but it is expensive stuff. See the link for how I used DynaMat to cut some road noise in my new FJ. http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/stereo-electronics-electrical/122575-2011-audio-mod.html I did not apply any to the metal in the doors, but I may in the future. It really deadens any vibrations in the metal.

You may notice a slight improvement in your sound if you run all new wiring to the speakers, but it's really not necessary. I have done it many times, and the benefit unless you are using high end amplifiers and a very high end in-dash unit is minimal. If you are wiring $5,000 of new audio equipment, by all means replace the factory speaker wiring. Otherwise, don't expect a whole lot in return for your time and effort. You would do better to run heavy gauge wire from the + battery terminal to your head end unit and amplifier (if any) to assure they are not starving for power. A number of companies make very heavy wiring kits designed to transmit a car/truck's 12-13 volt power with minimal loss. If you do run a new power wire, be sure to place a fuse right at the battery in case something ever shorts out. You don't want to destroy your battery, or worse, start an electrical fire. If you run a new power cable, don't forget that it is only half of the power circuit. You will need an equally heavy ground cable running from the in-dash unit and amp (if any) to a location where it can be very securely bolted to the frame of the vehicle. Crimp and/or solder a large lug on the ground wire, find a bare metal chassis location nearby, sand away the paint, and secure the wire and lug with a tight bolt and a lock washer to get a good solid ground to the frame of the vehicle.

Be sure to disable the "exciter" vibrating noise makers that Toyota uses to vibrate the headliner. They sound like what they are - vibrators attached to fiberboard. I faded my unit all the way to the front to kill them (until I can locate and cut the wires) since I have no rear speakers yet. I am very surprised that no one here has advised you to kill the headliner vibrators.

If you have questions about any of this, just ask. I will do my best to provide accurate information. I have been engineering audio systems for home stereo, home theater, and car audio for almost 30 years now.

-FJ Florida-
 

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You will not get much bass at all out of 6x9's, not only because there isn't enough cone, but the way they sit in the doors. Fit an 8" mid bass woofer in them, and drop 3.5" of 4" in the dash... should be plenty.

By the way...ALL 12V speakers are 4 Ohm
You are correct that a pair of 8's probably would be better than a pair of 6x9's, but that is assuming the 8's are designed for free air or infinite baffle use, NOT an enclosure. Mounting an 8 intended for an enclosure into a door or deck where there is no enclosure is a recipe for disaster.

You are incorrect that you will not get much bass from 6x9's. Mine have very solid bass. It depends on the 6x9. Three way 6x9's might be weak on the bass (see previous post on bright three way 6x9's), and the ones Toyota provided with my 2011 that had magnets the size of a quarter definitely will not. However, the ones that I installed (see previous post) have rock solid bass and plenty of it. My goal was to get some reasonable bass without dedicating space to a subwoofer in this vehicle. I achieved that goal with a solid pair of 6x9's in the doors and a solid pair of 3 1/2's in the dash, crossed over and attenuated properly.

You are incorrect that all "12 volt speakers" are 4 ohm. Speakers are not rated by voltage. They are rated by impedence (ohms) and by power and efficiency. In 12 volt battery systems like cars and boats, some aftermarket speakers are 2 ohm, Infinity for example, and some are 8 ohm, as clearly indicated on the dash tweeters I just removed from my 2011 FJ. A previous post even mentioned a 6 ohm aftermarket speaker. It varies.

-FJ Florida-
 
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