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@Firemedic831

Have the video up in YouTube. Copy the entire address bar https://www.youtube.com/watch..........

Paste it into your reply. Preview the post, somehow that will show the video window in your post (FM)

Then just submit it. :smile
 

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@Firemedic831 kinda browsed the video and at 3:30 that dude starts chiseling the rock. Can't confirm but it looks like someone chiseled the word "love" previously or at least the font looked different. The chiseling was uncalled for. And skipped ahead to some shooting. Looked it up and target shooting is allowed in Gold Lake/Plumas national forest (but probably not the shots in the air).

Not going to speak for other states but it's pretty common here in California. Certain areas like the Mojave road have been riddled with touristy oddities as a landmark. I don't necessarily condone the behavior but if the rangers haven't cleaned it up, who am I to say they're doing wrong when many have now made it the landmark it is.

Heck you guys know how Baja racing started? Guys raced across the desert blindly in order to get to their next stop. That probably destroyed lots of the desert ecosystem. Now there is a adaptation. Is it a shame? I don't know but many people still report how beautiful and majestic it is there, never that it's been ruined by desert racers. Who's going to tell a whole country they ruined it?

But then there is the blatant stupidity of ruining landmarks by moving the very stones that make it a landmark. If you've ever been to the race track in Death Valley, the have boulders and rocks that have migrated over time. Well people actually started moving those. They never did find the culprit from what I remember but there are more positive times when they did locate others that defaced the sand flats with the vehicles ruining the terrain thanks to media.

For all those that feel like hurting someone, while I don't agree with defacing property, I won't act like everyone has to agree with my standard, and certainly it's not okay to threaten someone for thinking differently. Report it to police like the original post and move along. The world tends to figure out things along the way.
 

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トヨタ Master
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Ok, I've read through all 6 and change pages of this thread and only @Slonomo has mentioned "Tread Lightly", but not in reference to the organization. It has taught over 200 million people and I have a hard time believing that I am the only FJ Cruiser Forum member of Tread Lightly, the organization. @BIGGUY made some good points that come from the Tread Lightly philosophy but if you are a responsible off roader than you really should get involved and help spread the word. People don't learn by themselves but by what they are taught and what they see.

Get involved! https://www.treadlightly.org/

Join Tread Lightly

I've been a member since I was 19. :bigthumb:
 

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I Have a V-8!! Moderator
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@CabinCruiser I was a member of Tread Lightly, United Four Wheel Drive Association both the regional and National chapters, and Toyota Land Cruiser Association from around 1990 when I bought my first new truck/4x4 and then in I think it was 1996 I became a member of the Red Rock 4Wheelers in Moab. I maintained my membership in all of them up until the end of 2012 when I retired and my disability money and stuff was messed up for a few months and I just really couldn't afford all of them since they came due at the same time. I did keep the TLCA one though.

The RR4Ws follow the Tread Lightly principles. It's their backyard in Moab and they no what happens with people messing with things or tearing up the ground off of the trails. Most of the money they take in from the Easter Safari goes to the BLM for fees and they have work with them constantly to see which trails can be used each year. They have to fight to keep the trails open too as environmental groups are fighting to close them.

We were on a trail one time and everything came to a halt. I was tail gunner and my friend was the mid gunner. The leader came over the CB and told everyone to sit tight. My friend filled me in on what happened later. A guy in a Blazer was of the trail spinning doughnuts. They went and tried to talk to him and explain why he should stay on the trail and told him about the crust on the desert floor. He basically told them to go f__k themselves. The leader made a call and got a couple of people to help and the stood near a clearing of rock just up the trail and waved their red club jackets. Within five minutes a Sheriffs helicopter landed and arrested the guy. The last I heard he got a pretty steep fine and lost his truck.

Another trip Frenchie who guided trips and also led trails was taking a group on the robbers roost run. There's a spot where everyone stops and then takes a short hike down to see some scenic stuff. When they got there they found some people that decided they didn't need to obey the signs and had taken their Jeeps down the trail and gotten stuck and when they tried to winch out they tore up some of the trees and pulled rocks down.

Another trail I was gunning on had a cabin that was at least 50 years old or more about half way down the trail. We stopped there for lunch and people could check it out and take photos. I got to town early and the leader got ahold of me. We'd been together on this trail a few years. He said that he'd prerun the trail two weeks earlier and it looked good. Then he told me he had went back out a couple of days before and someone had burned the cabin down.

A Scout troop was out hiking one time to check out some of the dinosaur footprints in the rock. They discovered that someone had used a saw and cut a section of rock out with the footprints in it.

This is why people get upset when others draw on rocks or drive through wet meadows turning them into mud pits and all the other stupid stuff. If someone doesn't care and speak up then others won't know that things shouldn't be done and stuff like that can lead to trail closures. If they don't close trails they can at the very least make it that much harder for getting trails set up for events.

I've seen places I used to go and camp when I was in HS that are only open to hikers now. There were roads into them that weren't real long but there was a stream and a small lake on the one. It was an old road that went to a few small mining claims. Now it's closed along with a few others.
 

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I Have a V-8!! Moderator
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Just for the info and comparisons to the Leave No Trace principles, here's the Tread Lightly principles which are very similar.

T ravel responsibly
R espect the rights of others
E ducate yourself
A void sensitive areas
D o your part

On their site they break these down a bit and explain them more.
 

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Bigguy…..thanks for the posts! You said it well my friend. I can tell you and I are cut from the same cloth. I assume you were in the military? If not, you speak as though you have seen the world through od green glass. I commend you my friend!

Those stories you told happen way too often. Unfortunately we share the world with two kinds of people that I don't care for..... DISREPSECTFUL IDIOTS …..and..... BLAMER WANNABE POLICE. The "disrespectful idiots" are the ones that do the off trail donuts and get thrown in jail. The "blamer wannabe police" are the ones who see the idiots doing the donuts and don't have the courage to call the police, but post on Facebook how they hate that guy.

If someone wants to point out that the guy chiseling "love" into the rock and how terrible he is, why don't you pursue him in a court of law? I'll tell you why, because you're a coward. The truth is, those guys using a screwdriver on the rock and leaving gems on the mountain really isn't that bad, compared to the extreme. So we let it slide. If it's illegal, that man should pay the price? Turn him in. He's on video for crying out loud!

I teach my kids that "If you see something, say something" when they see a dangerous or illegal act. It's our duty to report law breakers. If we do not, we are the cowards. If we say nothing, the laws are useless. If we don't enforce the laws, what good is it to have laws?

If I could, I would arrest those people myself, but that act itself is being frowned upon and can cause legal reactions, and a fight. If I saw that guy doing donuts, or if I saw someone sawing up the dino footprints, I too would feel like cracking them in the throat. But, that's not legal, and I obey the law, and I don't hurt people that don't try to hurt me. So.....I would call the police. That's frowned upon in "the hood" because "snitches get stitches", as they say, and all the crooks look out for each other. That's what's wrong with the world. These kinds of people don't have any honor. They don't have any respect for themselves, therefore none for anyone else.

Why do I follow the law? Because I fought to protect these laws, this land, and our way of life. It's idiots with no respect an honor that piss all over the laws and the flag that I defended. I have friends and family that lost their life defending our freedom. Semper Fi!


Let's not let the few dictate the attitude and honor of the many!
 

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トヨタ Master
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Why do I follow the law? Because I fought to protect these laws, this land, and our way of life. It's idiots with no respect an honor that piss all over the laws and the flag that I defended. I have friends and family that lost their life defending our freedom. Semper Fi!


Let's not let the few dictate the attitude and honor of the many!
Thank you for your service.
 

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The Observer Effect is definitely at work here. A thing is changed simply by being observed. This is a fancy way of saying that to observe and appreciate nature, we must interact with it, and we can't very well interact with nature without having some sort of impact upon it.

That's why observation (including exploration) is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, by exploring, we risk negatively impacting the land we drive over. On the other, such exploration is necessary to gain appreciation for nature—an appreciation that (hopefully) leads to respect, a desire and reasonable efforts to preserve it.
 

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トヨタ Master
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The Observer Effect is definitely at work here. A thing is changed simply by being observed. This is a fancy way of saying that to observe and appreciate nature, we must interact with it, and we can't very well interact with nature without having some sort of impact upon it.

That's why observation (including exploration) is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, by exploring, we risk negatively impacting the land we drive over. On the other, such exploration is necessary to gain appreciation for nature—an appreciation that (hopefully) leads to respect, a desire and reasonable efforts to preserve it.
Like cavemen scratching their name into a rock in front of the other cave men, cave women, and cave children?
 

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