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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was talking to a friend of mine a few days ago and he drives a Tahoe. He said that few gas stations around the B'ham are offering E85 now. From what he said, E85 run a lot cleaner than gas and was more fuel efficient than gas also. My question is can you and how hard would it be to be able to run both fuels in the FJ like Chevy does the Tahoe?

The cost of the fuel around here is suppose to around $3 a gallon, but the main reason to change for me is because I am sick of sending my money to poeple that don't respect us and getting srewed more than Janet Jamison at work.
 

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There's supposedly kits out there to do the conversion. But if toyota didn't design it to run off of e85, than it's not meant to be.





It may be cleaner, but you won't be getting better mileage than gasoline.
 

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Does toyota offer any e85 vehicles at that??? I would doubt a e85 conversion would still keep the engines warranty. Which is about the only part that i am avidly trying not to break.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Does toyota offer any e85 vehicles at that??? I would doubt a e85 conversion would still keep the engines warranty. Which is about the only part that i am avidly trying not to break.
I thought about that and it might be somthing to do when the warranty is up.
 

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Not true! Your mileage will be less. Mine is down with just the gub'ment-mandated 10% ethanol in our gasoline here (E10).
There is a usually a very small drop in miles/gallon. That's because ethanol has less energy per volume. It carries around some of the oxygen with it. The miles/gallons usually drop, but that's irrelevant. You're comparing apples to oranges. What truly matters is miles/$, and that will be cheaper. You saw a drop in the 10% ethanol because your car is not tuned for it. With a good tune, it's possible that even E85 won't cause a drop in miles/gallon.

Ethanol also has a much higher octane rating, so it can achieve more power.

An ethanol kit will usually include larger fuel injectors, perhaps a bigger pump, and some form of engine management to tune the car for running E85.

It's generally economical, cleaner, and has a lot more power potential. People looking to get the most out of high performance street cars will often convert to E85 and take advantage of the high octane rating.
 

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There is a usually a very small drop in miles/gallon. That's because ethanol has less energy per volume. It carries around some of the oxygen with it. The miles/gallons usually drop, but that's irrelevant. You're comparing apples to oranges. What truly matters is miles/$, and that will be cheaper. You saw a drop in the 10% ethanol because your car is not tuned for it. With a good tune, it's possible that even E85 won't cause a drop in miles/gallon.

Ethanol also has a much higher octane rating, so it can achieve more power.

An ethanol kit will usually include larger fuel injectors, perhaps a bigger pump, and some form of engine management to tune the car for running E85.

It's generally economical, cleaner, and has a lot more power potential. People looking to get the most out of high performance street cars will often convert to E85 and take advantage of the high octane rating.
Although I dont claim to know anything about this stuff I have heard the complete opposite, that you loose more gas milage, and power so that the trade off for price at the pump actually costs more in the end. I still havn't seen any solid doccumentation either way. could someone please post up a reputible source report on this if you have one? I'm just interested to what the real truth is on this stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
There is a usually a very small drop in miles/gallon. That's because ethanol has less energy per volume. It carries around some of the oxygen with it. The miles/gallons usually drop, but that's irrelevant. You're comparing apples to oranges. What truly matters is miles/$, and that will be cheaper. You saw a drop in the 10% ethanol because your car is not tuned for it. With a good tune, it's possible that even E85 won't cause a drop in miles/gallon.

Ethanol also has a much higher octane rating, so it can achieve more power.

An ethanol kit will usually include larger fuel injectors, perhaps a bigger pump, and some form of engine management to tune the car for running E85.

It's generally economical, cleaner, and has a lot more power potential. People looking to get the most out of high performance street cars will often convert to E85 and take advantage of the high octane rating.
Good info. Keep it coming
 

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I have actually heard both sides. Runs cleaner, better power.
And that it gives worse gas mileage. Too bad there isn't an e85 pump in baton rouge that i know of even.
 

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It will void your warranty to convert it over to E85 if it's not a factory conversion kit. If done 'correctly' it would cost thousands of dollars to convert after the fact, if done at manufacturing time, there's very little cost addition. The internet sold kits are economical but it will degrade the longevity of the parts that come in contact with the E85. As well, the ECU should have a secondary program to run the E85 and take advantage of the higher octane. Factory vehicles can take advantage of this to some degree, whereas many of the add-on kits don't, hence they take the full mpg hit.

E85 contains ~80,000 btu's (per US gallon) vs RUL's ~124,800 so a drop of ~44,800 btu's. That 's a 36% decrease in energy per gallon. Expect to see a similar drop in MPG. If you run a calculator, the savings on the E85 works out to be about a wash with the more expensive gasoline when you take into account the substantial decrease in mpg (depending on prices in your area).

No arguments from me about where the fuel comes from, who makes the money etc... I'm just trying to provide some data that I have researched.

DEWFPO
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I would rather some farmer in Nebraska get rich off me than someone that wants to blow me up so he can have his 45 virgins.
 

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It will void your warranty to convert it over to E85 if it's not a factory conversion kit. If done 'correctly' it would cost thousands of dollars to convert after the fact, if done at manufacturing time, there's very little cost addition. The internet sold kits are economical but it will degrade the longevity of the parts that come in contact with the E85. As well, the ECU should have a secondary program to run the E85 and take advantage of the higher octane. Factory vehicles can take advantage of this to some degree, whereas many of the add-on kits don't, hence they take the full mpg hit.

E85 contains ~80,000 btu's (per US gallon) vs RUL's ~124,800 so a drop of ~44,800 btu's. That 's a 36% decrease in energy per gallon. Expect to see a similar drop in MPG. If you run a calculator, the savings on the E85 works out to be about a wash with the more expensive gasoline when you take into account the substantial decrease in mpg (depending on prices in your area).

No arguments from me about where the fuel comes from, who makes the money etc... I'm just trying to provide some data that I have researched.

DEWFPO
Hit it on the nose ... I looked into this a few years ago where gas was still under $3.00 ... I was thinking of doing the conversion on my Dodge Ram ... After doing the math, no pennies were saved. So I'd rather pump fuel that is not supposed to be food.

Here in Chicago Regular cost avg $4.08 and e85 is $3.80 ... so at current prices, miles per dollar are less with E85.
 

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It will void your warranty to convert it over to E85 if it's not a factory conversion kit. If done 'correctly' it would cost thousands of dollars to convert after the fact, if done at manufacturing time, there's very little cost addition. The internet sold kits are economical but it will degrade the longevity of the parts that come in contact with the E85. As well, the ECU should have a secondary program to run the E85 and take advantage of the higher octane. Factory vehicles can take advantage of this to some degree, whereas many of the add-on kits don't, hence they take the full mpg hit.

E85 contains ~80,000 btu's (per US gallon) vs RUL's ~124,800 so a drop of ~44,800 btu's. That 's a 36% decrease in energy per gallon. Expect to see a similar drop in MPG. If you run a calculator, the savings on the E85 works out to be about a wash with the more expensive gasoline when you take into account the substantial decrease in mpg (depending on prices in your area).

No arguments from me about where the fuel comes from, who makes the money etc... I'm just trying to provide some data that I have researched.

DEWFPO
Hit it on the nose ... I looked into this a few years ago where gas was still under $3.00 ... I was thinking of doing the conversion on my Dodge Ram ... After doing the math, no pennies were saved. So I'd rather pump fuel that is not supposed to be food.

Here in Chicago Regular cost avg $4.08 and e85 is $3.80 ... so at current prices, miles per dollar are less with E85.


Bingo. :cheers:
 

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E85 contains ~80,000 btu's (per US gallon) vs RUL's ~124,800 so a drop of ~44,800 btu's. That 's a 36% decrease in energy per gallon. Expect to see a similar drop in MPG.
That assumes you get a similar LHV efficiency out of the fuels, which is an incorrect assumption. I would never expect to see a 36% decrease in mpg. The ethanol burn is more efficient, converting more of its chemical energy into work on the pistons.
 

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In comparison tests that I've read in auto mags, the ethanol mix typically gives around 70% of the MPGs that regular gasoline does. I might be wrong since I've never watched for E85 but I think the E85 is usually priced around 70% of gasoline so that makes some sense. However, if you think you are really supporting our energy independence, you are mistaken. Ethanol from corn is a FARCE. Per unit of energy, it takes almost as much gas/diesel to produce it as you get back. While it makes less greenhouse gases, it produces more smog. In addition, our government is paying ethanol producers over $.50 per gallon to produce ethanol from corn while they have an even larger tax on ethanol imported from Brazil. This is your tax dollars at work or rather not at work. They've got things pretty screwed up with this new pseudo-industry and now the worlds bread-basket is losing the respect of the world. As a farmer, I do not support ethanol as it is currently being produced and I think if everyone else knew all the truths they would not support it either. If we are going to turn crops into fuel, we should be emphasizing diesel as raising soybeans to produce biodiesel yields approx 3 times the energy. 1 BTU invested in producing corn ethanol yields about 1.35 BTU of energy . . . but it uses tremendous amounts of fresh water and natural gas to produce. Is it really worth using so much of these various resources to make something that is barely making more energy than it requires ? I don't think so. IMO, if ethanol cannot stand on its own as an industry and survive without government subsidies, then it should not survive at all.
 

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The short answer to your question is yes you can convert to E85. The only question is do you want to do a full conversion or try to accomplish a FFV conversion.

We have experimenters that have converted just about every car in current manufacture to run on E85. I personally have about 40,000 miles on a conversion (5 years). All the current manufacture cars with the OBDII compliant ECU's seem to be very tolerant of E85 to date we (e85 forums) have NO reports of fuel system incompatibility on any of these cars. Some right off the show room floor will run just fine on upwards of 60% E85 with no changes of any kind. The Modern ECU's have enough adjustment authority that they self tune for the new fuel needs over a wide range. Many will throw a CEL at somewhere between 30% blend of E85 and 60% blend E85 but the CEL is only because the ECU thinks something is broken as it is using so much fuel trim to get proper mixtures. My particular car a Subaru WRX will trigger the CEL on the stock configuration at about 33% E85 blend, but runs very well up past 50% E85 (I never bothered to go higher as by then I knew I wanted to do the full conversion since the car ran so well on it.)

An E85 conversion consists of nothing more than increasing fuel flow across the board by about 30% +/1 a few percent depending on the car. That is it!
The stock O2 sensor does not know or care what the fuel is as long as it is hitting its target fuel air mixture to get stoichiometric combustion in cruise closed loop fueling.
The Cats work fine with E85, the fuel also cleans the fuel system very well, the higher octane makes many engines very happy as the ECU will self tune to use the extra octane to a degree depending on the manufactures control algorithm. Most NA engines see a minimum of a 5% increase in power, (many do better), turbocharged and supercharged engines absolutely love the fuel.

The high performance community is falling all over themselves to do conversions as E85 allows performance and safety from detonation that you can only dream about on gasoline (even $8.00/gallon racing gasoline cannot match it).

Fuel mileage on a per gallon basis does drop a bit. The OEM FFV's are actually worst case examples for E85 as they are in no way optimized for E85. They are gasoline engines that are optimized for 87 octane gasoline with no tweaks to the tuning to use the E85 at ideal efficiency. I personally have gotten about 92% of my gasoline mileage on E85 in my first conversion. My current conversion (bigger turbo more power etc.) is not optimized for fuel mileage but performance, passes emissions tests with flying colors and gets about 18-19 mpg on E85 compared to 20-21 on gasoline in normal daily driving, so I am taking a 10% - 15% hit on fuel miles per gallon but my fuel costs are way down saving me about $750/year at current fuel prices.

Larry
 
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