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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all,
I am curious if anyone has had enough of the fuel injection system and opted for a carbureted system.

If so, would you shoot me some info. I am curious to learn more if it is worth doing and if it can be done with aftermarket parts.

Cheers,
Dean
 

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What trouble are you having that you're thinking about stepping backwards to carbs?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
What trouble are you having that you're thinking about stepping backwards to carbs?
Hi ALB
No trouble, just curious, I can squeeze 10-12percent mpg teaking carbs, and with the prices going to the moon, anything can help.
Cheers,
Dean
 

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Not being a wise ass. Someone will have to explain to me how carburation would run better and provide better fuel economy in our FJs. ?? Seriously, I don't know. I've had to deal with carburetors a goodly part of my life and wouldn't want to go back. Curious too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hey Lee44. In 96 we had a device that would reduce some of the atmospheric pressure in the float bowl and direct dome of the fuel vapor into the venturi, while aspirating about 5% distilled H20 for increasing the octane level. this would give on average an 20-30% increase in MPG while eliminating NOX CO2 etc. We had it tested at the CARB California Air resource Board for Provincial gov approval. The tech fell off his chair, that is all i will say. So 25-30MPG would be better than the **** injection system gives me now.

Cheers,
Dean
 

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Absolutely zero chance in hell that any type of carbureted fuel system could ever improve the fuel consumption provided by the current super-sophisticated fuel-feedback injection systems that monitor and control, real-time, air:fuel ratio at exactly 14.7:1.

There is a very good reason that not a single modern motor vehicle currently in production in the world today uses a carburetor.

Modern fuel injection systems adjust air:fuel ratio based on:
Engine coolant temperature;
Intake air temperature;
Intake air density;
Throttle position;
Engine load factor;
Engine RPM;
Transmission gear selected;
Fuel antiknock characteristics;
And more, depending on the specific system.

Carburetors are totally blind to these variables, and are unable to maintain a precise air:fuel ratio across a very wide range of airflow values (idle to WOT).

Neither your claimed 10-12% nor 20-30% "improvement" is possible.

If you've already developed such a system 25 years ago, it would seem that marketing this system in today's world of $5/gallon gas would make you an instant millionaire. I'm sure you could easily find plenty of venture capital to develop and market such a system IF you could provide just a little proof that such a system actually works.
 

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Yup, and every 5K miles greasing the little felt pad that lubricated the points cam, and filing the contact points with the special little file, and cleaning the carbon dust out of the distributor cap.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Show us how... you go first.
It was a simple device used in WW2 in Canada.
T off from an existing vacuumed line, take a micro needle valve, hook a piece of rubber fuel line to one end of the valve and the other end using a piece of rubber fuel line or the like, slide over one of the 2 float bowl vents. When the engine is up to running temp, crack open the valve just a bit, incrementally opening the valve until you hear the RPMs increase1-200rpm. Open alittle further until the rpm start to die off, close up a little until the idle goes up again and that is it.

This did 2 things. It provided vapor fuel to enter into the chamber, 2nd, it reduced the atmospheric pressure a pound or 2 which rests on the fuel to allow it to flow into the venturi. When accelerating and hard decelerating there is an increase pressure being applied with in the float bowl which allows more than needed fuel to enter into the intake manifold. This little device would hold that " normally wasted fuel" back from entering. You can also incorporate distilled water via a secondary unit. this would allow you to lean out the mixture alittle bit more and allow for increased pressure within the cylinders. H2) expands 1500 times more when converted into steam. This will squelch the flame within the cylinder post ignition, which prevents valve burn etc. We all know that a minute amount of raw "wasted" fuel ( whether in a Carb or injected system) must be present upon each compression/ignition cycle to put out (squelch) the flame before leaving into the exhaust valve system.
There is no money in going against Big Oil, that is why we presented our projections data, etc to Mo Sihota, our environmental minister at the time. We found out quickly that the whole green movement was a sham. Mo was not interested in a win win for the enviro and the people.

This unit did not do much for the Chevy quadra jet of the time, as it was the most sophisticated fuel efficient system of the time.
 

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There is no money in going against Big Oil, that is why we presented our projections data, etc to Mo Sihota, our environmental minister at the time. We found out quickly that the whole green movement was a sham. Mo was not interested in a win win for the enviro and the people.
I am a British Columbian, remember Mr. Sihota and am not surprised by your story. I always thought that 'Opportunity Minister' was a better title for him.
 

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Given the threat of Big Electric, wouldn't Big Oil be interested any technology that kept ICE competitive?
 

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"We all know that a minute amount of raw "wasted" fuel ( whether in a Carb or injected system) must be present upon each compression/ignition cycle to put out (squelch) the flame before leaving into the exhaust valve system."

Providing extra unnecessary fuel "... to put out the flame" ????

I must say, that's just about the most nonsensical theory I've heard in a long time.
 

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Stories of magical gains have always been just that, stories.
I followed each and every one of them very closely, all through the '70s fuel crisis, and then on through the '80s, '90s, etc. as each new idea was touted with great fanfare, only to be found to be not much after proper testing. Fuel injection and modern electronic controls finally made magic become reality, for some of them.

One that did actually work was the "water injection" / "alcohol injection" like was used on WWII warplanes, it cooled the combustion chamber enough to allow large timing advance without getting detonation. Result was some mpg savings/power gain, but required frequent re-filling of the tank, so was not useful for mass production.

Note that modern exhaust gas recirculation is used for that exact same effect, and it is free (and there is no liquid to require replenishment).
 

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1962 Olds Jetfire. I remember going to the dealer to look at one when I was a senior in high school.

The Olds Jetfire had a V8 (215 ci) with a turbo charger and methanol:water injection from the factory. It was a very exciting car in 1962. The car was ahead of its time and should be remembered.
Depending, the water/alcohol tank had to be refilled every three tanks of gas (+/-)

Didn't end up doing so well. I read that people started using just water instead of the fluid that they HAD to get at the dealer. Straight water didn't prevent detonation.

On the subject:
The stoichiometric mixture for a gasoline engine is the ideal ratio of air to fuel that burns all fuel with no excess air. For gasoline fuel, the stoichiometric air–fuel mixture is about 14.7:1 i.e. for every one gram of fuel, 14.7 grams of air are required.
I think simply put, more power, more fuel/air. More economy, less weight, aerodynamics, rolling resistance. Maybe too simply put but it's not magic sparkplugs or 50mpg carburetors.
 

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be cool to go back to adjusting points in a distributor too...........
Yeah, I still remember lying across the air cleaner in my '69 Nova late one night at a rest stop on I95 in Northern VA with a flashlight in my mouth, a match book cover and a screw driver adjusting the points. A week later I replaced it all with an HEI distributor. No, I don't want to go back.
 

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Hello all,
I am curious if anyone has had enough of the fuel injection system and opted for a carbureted system.

If so, would you shoot me some info. I am curious to learn more if it is worth doing and if it can be done with aftermarket parts.

Cheers,
Dean
Dude, do you still use your B&W tube TV too?

Carbureted offroaders, what a waste of time. Lets just step back 40 years in engine performance and reliability. Have a proper shop service your EFI. If you are having a problem with TOYOTA EFI, chances are you should check the drivers seat.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Dude, do you still use your B&W tube TV too?

Carbureted offroaders, what a waste of time. Lets just step back 40 years in engine performance and reliability. Have a proper shop service your EFI. If you are having a problem with TOYOTA EFI, chances are you should check the drivers seat.
In fact I do use my black and white tv for the high frequency discharge to break earths gravity for my lifter project
The Lifters Experiments home page by Jean-Louis Naudin Science like you have never seen, a! the drivers seat can always use adjusting, :cool:
I do ask though, if EFI is that efficient, than why the need for a CAT to burn unburnt fuel> just curious!
 
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