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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is asked strictly out of curiousity - I am simply looking for people's thoughts on this. :) I am just curious as to why human nature works the way it does and would like some honest answers! :)

Why is it that when we visited the dealership to purchase our FJ's - we expect total and complete honesty from the salesperson when we are dealing on a potential sale, but after purchase has been made, if the vehicle is returned to dealership for warranty work, or otherwise, some of the suggestions posted on this forum are to be 'less than honest' with how the damage occurred, especially if off roading induced etc. Is it simply the money aspect that causes one to be momentarily hypocritical?

Again, please accept this in the spirit for which it was posted - straight curiousity. I myself have been 'guilty' of this, and yes, money is by far the deciding factor, but I would like to hear opinions from others!

Flying to Houston today so will check in on this thread later! :wave:
 

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I think honesty expected and then not presented when you have an issue is hypocritical at best. I have read quite a few threads here with members upset that they did not get the coverage under warranty that they had expected. In some cases they are right.

However in others they are not. I agree that the FJ is advertised as an off road capable vehicle but like anything else there are limits. Installing items such as larger mud tires then expecting a CV joint to be covered when broken while climbing up a rocky hill comes to mind.

I digress, but the answer to me is simple. if I break something I take it back and tell the truth. If I feel I am in the right I will fight for what I want. In the case above, I'll buy the new CV and axle and install it myself.
 

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I think that to lie to further one's own cause is simply human nature sadly to say. The bigger the opportunity for self-gratification, the more apt a human is to lie to obtain it. Just look at politicians. This trend is growing with incredible speed as each generation becomes more and more used to entitlement.

Why work hard? I am owed a good job that's easy. Why work at all when I can suckle the government teat on welfare?

It is a sad state of affairs, but I think it's just the way things will be. Folks are so damn worried about offending others, that they have forgotten to be true to their own conscience. No morality, no consequences, and getting praise even when one doesn't deserve it are all contributing factors to this social decline. I could go on and on and on regarding this topic, but I'll leave it here lest I stand on my soapbox for too long.

In closing, my solution is simple. Stop all this feel-good hippie bullsh!t mentality that has consumed this fine nation. Speak your mind, embrace controversial thought and speech, piss people off without fear of reprisal, and accept that people can and will fail and it is not the government's nor society's responsibility to pick them back up, dust them off, and tell them it will be alright. A little failure and hardship goes a long way in motivating someone to do better, be better, and achieve more.

Take away failure, and failure is all you'll have.

Howls,
FJ Wolf
 

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What are you really asking? Are you suggesting that there is no morality in the automobile sales and service industry or with those buying?

Of course one should expect and require honesty when representing the sale of a new vehicle. But, that isn't always the case, which puts the buyer into a state of mind that they were "taken", thus looking to get something back. Charging extra for extended warranties, undercoating, overcoating, dealer add-ons and walking out with the feeling of being "taken" does little to help to get honesty when one returns for service.

This mentality seems to carry over from past sales, sales to family/friends into a belief that one must be wary of the auto sales industry and get all one can from the dealerships. This is a mentality that I believe is deserved in an industry which continues to mislead buyers with deceptive sales techniques.

And, as many have documented, when returning to the dealer for a potential warranty issue and having one person get the same "issue" warrantied while another is denied, this creates even more feelings of animosity toward the auto dealerships.

If only there were some consistency on both ends of the "deal", then things might be different. But, until dealerships can be counted on giving an honest deal on one end, it will be a long time until they get the same treatment on the other end...
 

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O.K. you lost me in the first paragraph. I did not go to the dealership "all glowy" expecting good honest answers. I went there in a t-shirt and Tevas a grin above my chin because I knew I was gonna overwhelm who was brave enough to step up to the plate. I rolled out $7 G off the sticker and there is no way that I would ever let the service department touch my FJ. Maybe I am lucky because I also good with working on cars.
Me on the other hand, always-I say again always speak the truth because I am big enough to back up the truth.
"the Truth" you ask?????????????????? This Forum ROCKS!!!
 

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I think it's wishful thinking to expect honesty from dealerships. We would like them to be honest because it would make our trip there much easier. Isn't this the reason why some people play the lottery? This is why some of you are buying raffles at Summit isn't it? :) They have a business and they have practices in place to insure they are profitable. They have to balance customer loyalty with their bottom line.

I'm a skeptical optimist. I like to think that for the most part people are trying to do good, but it doesn't take much at all to make them do otherwise. Motivators such as money and convenience are just a few small ones that can often dissuade people from making the right decision.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thank you for your answers - and yes, the question was painted with a very broad brush in regards to generalizations regarding both parties, but I appreciated the answers none the less. As mentioned, I was curious and looking at insights from other forum members.

Thank you!
 

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I had a conversation with a friend about this once and his concept was that since the automobile industry for the most part is based on negotiation, then anything goes. The dealer will be deceptive, try to sell undercoating, extended warranties, will try to get bottom dollar for your trade-in and top dollar for the new car. In return the automobile owner will try whatever they can do to get the best deal they can. In short, it's business, not personal, and you negotiate the best deal you can, whether its buying the vehicle or getting warranties covered.

For me, I walk away from deceptive salesmen/managers and accept the deal I make to buy a vehicle as my best effort. If you feel you were taken in buying the vehicle, why did you make the deal? If you made a bad deal it's at least half your fault. So when it comes to warranties it is the same way, I expect the warranty as written to be honored. And in the case of the FJ, even things that break offroading, to a reasonable degree. If I was wheeling in a similar manner as to what is shown in Toyota's advertising, I expect it to be covered. If I'm taking the thing airborne for 15 feet, then no. Same with mods, the CV joint and oversize tires, no - not covering anything just because I lifted the vehicle (which my dealer did to numerous FJ's), is not right.
 

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I had a conversation with a friend about this once and his concept was that since the automobile industry for the most part is based on negotiation, then anything goes. The dealer will be deceptive, try to sell undercoating, extended warranties, will try to get bottom dollar for your trade-in and top dollar for the new car. In return the automobile owner will try whatever they can do to get the best deal they can. In short, it's business, not personal, and you negotiate the best deal you can, whether its buying the vehicle or getting warranties covered.

For me, I walk away from deceptive salesmen/managers and accept the deal I make to buy a vehicle as my best effort. If you feel you were taken in buying the vehicle, why did you make the deal? If you made a bad deal it's at least half your fault. So when it comes to warranties it is the same way, I expect the warranty as written to be honored. And in the case of the FJ, even things that break offroading, to a reasonable degree. If I was wheeling in a similar manner as to what is shown in Toyota's advertising, I expect it to be covered. If I'm taking the thing airborne for 15 feet, then no. Same with mods, the CV joint and oversize tires, no - not covering anything just because I lifted the vehicle (which my dealer did to numerous FJ's), is not right.

I had my answer, but I'm going to x2 this post and add that our dealership attempts to avoid fixing ANY problem, to the point that I have complained to Toyota corporate and ensured that our complaints counted against them (too many, and Toyota will tell a dealership they can't be a Toyota dealership anymore).

Additionally, we bought the tire warranty, and then they charged us for a repair that should have been free, sneaky bastages.
Further, they have failed to do work they claimed they did and ripped us off on the return of our maintenance plan.

As far as I am concerned, due to the above, my dealership owes me some money. I'll take it in the work they will perform when something goes wrong, no matter what I must say to get it taken care of.

If they can jack up parts and labor prices, they do. If you are getting a discount, to the back of the work rack you go, adding at least an hour to your already boring wait.

They can, and do, stick it to you at every opportunity. I didn't expect honesty when we bought ours... we knew they'd be slightly sheisty. We went in armed with plenty of knowledge and walked away satisified.

Honest car dealer is an oxymoron, sorry.
 

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I think that to lie to further one's own cause is simply human nature sadly to say. The bigger the opportunity for self-gratification, the more apt a human is to lie to obtain it. Just look at politicians. This trend is growing with incredible speed as each generation becomes more and more used to entitlement.

Why work hard? I am owed a good job that's easy. Why work at all when I can suckle the government teat on welfare?

It is a sad state of affairs, but I think it's just the way things will be. Folks are so damn worried about offending others, that they have forgotten to be true to their own conscience. No morality, no consequences, and getting praise even when one doesn't deserve it are all contributing factors to this social decline. I could go on and on and on regarding this topic, but I'll leave it here lest I stand on my soapbox for too long.

In closing, my solution is simple. Stop all this feel-good hippie bullsh!t mentality that has consumed this fine nation. Speak your mind, embrace controversial thought and speech, piss people off without fear of reprisal, and accept that people can and will fail and it is not the government's nor society's responsibility to pick them back up, dust them off, and tell them it will be alright. A little failure and hardship goes a long way in motivating someone to do better, be better, and achieve more.

Take away failure, and failure is all you'll have.

Howls,
FJ Wolf
FJ Wolf for President!!!!!
 
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