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Ditching K&N filter and going back to paper.

10K views 44 replies 17 participants last post by  mikey 
#1 ·
After watching project farms video on youtube where he tests engine air filters, I did more research and found that the K&N's suck at filtering. There is tons of info out there on other forums and websites and I would rather sacrifice the better airflow of the K&N for better filtering.

I'm also going to order a new MAF sensor even though I've been cleaning every year just incase the one I have now has any issues from the K&N.

I'll post the stock replacement K&N filter I have on here for sale sometime soon.
 
#4 ·
Yep, back to stock. I have the OEM air intake with the K&N filter element in my 2012. From searching around last night and researching a bit, it seems like WIX, AC Delco, and Purolator seem to be the best for paper filters. I'm going to give the WIX a shot.

I found out that WIX was making a rebranded filter for NAPA (NAPA Gold) but, not sure if that is the case anymore.
 
#6 ·
After watching project farms video on youtube where he tests engine air filters, I did more research and found that the K&N's suck at filtering. ...

I'll post the stock replacement K&N filter I have on here for sale sometime soon.
wait so they suck at filtering and can cause damage, but you are going to post it for sale to some other FJ forum member? What am i missing?

Why not just use the OEM Denso Filter you can get from Rock Auto for $8.94 for '10-14 models and $9.91 for '07-09 models.
 
#9 ·
@Nameuser here was the difference in pleats on my 07 filter between toyota and Wix. Wix sorta looked cheap and for less than $10 makes sense. I guess we're spoiled by the neatly packed pleats by Toyota. Not sure it's as durable but I guess you could go through 2-3 Wix for the price of one Yota filter.
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#11 ·
Nothing wrong with the OEM filters. I still have my original OEM filter and I'm going to visually compare the two and decide to go OEM or not. I'm going to use the WIX for 10k because I already ordered it but, if the OEM has more pleats and more depth, I'll go back to the OEM. For the 2010+ model year the price of the WIX over the OEM isn't that much.

I'll post some comparison pics on here between the OEM and the WIX when i get it. :)
 
#12 ·
I recently cleaned my MAF sensor for the first time (175K miles). Oh my god, what a difference in engine smoothness and performance!! I've always run just regular auto parts store filters. I guess I didnt realize there was that much of a difference. Following ...
 
#14 ·
Smart to get rid of the K&N. I'm new to the FJ Forum but have been on a Dodge Cummins Diesel forum for many years and this is a big issue for the turbo charged Cummins. Many horror stories of dusted engines using an oiled K&N or S&B. The OEM filters for my truck come in 2" and 4" depths. I run the 4" and it will hold a ton of dirt and still not trip the filter minder. Attached is a photo of my filter after last Fall's Deer and Elk hunts. Intake tubes were clean as a whistle! Does the OEM Toyota air filter come in just one size?
 

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#15 ·
I got the WIX yesterday and took some pics vs the OEM. Both filters had 109 pleats same size LxWxH. The OEM had little ridges on the pleats that would keep them separated which, the WIX didn't have which, you can see in the pics. Both filters had the same feel both in paper texture and the spongy filter frame. The WIX was made in China and the OEM made by Denso was Japan.

I'd say the OEM Denso has a slight advantage with being made in Japan. Minus the little ridges the OEM had to keep the pleats separated and the metal grate the WIX has there is really no other difference.

I searched around for anything on the internet that tested an OEM filters ability to filter vs. a non-OEM paper filter. If anyone finds a test where an OEM filter is tested for it's filtering ability vs. a non-OEM, please share. Until then, there is no way of telling by just looking at the filters which one has better filter capability. From the tests of non-OEM filters out there the WIX certainly does a good job of filtering over other non-OEM brands from what i found online.

Another annoying thing is that OEM's claim their the best with no evidence and the non-OEM's all claim that they are as good or better than OEM without any proof.

I'd say if you can't decide to just stick with the OEM. In my case, I feel the WIX is just as good and hopefully, a little better at filtering from the information and tests I found online testing non-OEM filters against one another for their filtering ability.

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#16 ·
I got the WIX yesterday and took some pics vs the OEM. Both filters had 109 pleats same size LxWxH. The OEM had little ridges on the pleats that would keep them separated which, the WIX didn't have which, you can see in the pics. Both filters had the same feel both in paper texture and the spongy filter frame. The WIX was made in China and the OEM made by Denso was Japan.

I'd say the OEM Denso has a slight advantage with being made in Japan. Minus the little ridges the OEM had to keep the pleats separated and the metal grate the WIX has there is really no other difference.

I searched around for anything on the internet that tested an OEM filters ability to filter vs. a non-OEM paper filter. If anyone finds a test where an OEM filter is tested for it's filtering ability vs. a non-OEM, please share. Until then, there is no way of telling by just looking at the filters which one has better filter capability. From the tests of non-OEM filters out there the WIX certainly does a good job of filtering over other non-OEM brands from what i found online.

Another annoying thing is that OEM's claim their the best with no evidence and the non-OEM's all claim that they are as good or better than OEM without any proof.

I'd say if you can't decide to just stick with the OEM. In my case, I feel the WIX is just as good and hopefully, a little better at filtering from the information and tests I found online testing non-OEM filters against one another for their filtering ability.

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#24 ·
Also, cleaned the heck out of the MAF with CRC MAF cleaner and took the top of the airbox off and cleaned the white screen thing with degreaser just to make sure there is no K&N oil left over. I also checked the hose from the filter box to the engine and it was thankfully K&N oil free. I cleaned the throttle body only like 3,000 miles ago so, that should still be good and clean.

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#29 ·
I'm giving the Purolator a shot after the WIX and will be able to compare it to the WIX and OEM once it comes time for a new filter. WIX and Purolator were my two top choices with OEM in third place because there isn't anything I could find online where people tested OEM vs. non-OEM filters. It's pretty much all non-OEM vs. other non-OEM brands in filter testing.
 
#27 ·
Nobody mentioned AFE Dry Pro? That’s what I dumped my K&N for years ago. No oil, but cleanable and reusable. Love it!

Problem w the K&N is the human error in oiling it. I’m sure in a lab test it works great, but in reality a person just sprays some oil on. I’ve have known some buddies that were way over oiling their filters. Oiling cause more detriment than good when done improperly.
 
#28 ·
Since I owned a K&N that's all I could speak to but, how is the AFE's filtration ability? Just going off the top of my head but, the best the K&N could do was down to the 15 micron range and the paper down to 5 microns. And yes, I'm not going to miss clearing the K&N anymore!
 
#32 ·
I bought the K&N filter and tube thing from the airbox to the throttle body.
I wasn't impressed with the fit of the tube thing, and the plastic screw-in barbed bit that you connect the crank case vent hose and fuel rail vent to was craptacular. The barb that the fuel vent pushed onto broke, and the hose that they supplied for the crank case vent was just a straight piece of fuel hose, when it really needed to be moulded. Anyway I left it on there, and power seemed a bit smoother on the road.
I was offroad in the desert this evening in the dark, and ended up in the bottom of a bowl. Never good, when you're on your own, but I got out, dropped my tire pressures, and managed to get out, but it seemed like I was way down on power... I put that down to the sand being super soft.
I almost stalled a couple of times and the engine was running rough, so I stopped and popped the hood. I was expecting the oiled K&N filter to be full of sand. Nope. worse.
The sh1tty pipe thing had disconnected from the airbox, and was pulling filthy dusty air in from the engine bay. I could see massive grains of sand in the bottom of it. How much got sucked through the engine, I'll never know. I pulled the pipe off and tapped the sand out of it and wiped it out with a tissue before I refitted it (meanwhile it was blowing a minor gale and the air is full of sand). I checked the filter and it seemed OK, so I started it up and it ran OK. I aired up and drove home. I'll be pulling that filter and all the other K&N crap out of it tomorrow and chucking it in the bin. I need reliability, and cheap nasty crap like that doesn't belong in my FJ.
Back to stock filters, everything.
 
#33 ·
I believe the video referred to is

I've had no problems with my K&N filter, nor when I ran a Fram filter, nor with the "stock" TRD airbox filter which was very very similar in construction and re-usability (per the instructions) to a K&N oiled filter. Well, actually, the Fram's lip was "too short" and the TRD airbox wouldn't latch around it; I had to bend the clips to make a tighter fit.

I do not clean & re-use the K&N filters; I toss 'em just like any other filter.

I hoped for higher airflow while still retaining adequate filtration (resulting in slightly more power) by choosing the "high flow" K&N filter. "High flow" always means "less filtration." You choose "high flow" because you think the increased flow is enough and the decreased filtration is acceptable within the parameters of your use-case. (I choose "high flow" oil filters and change at 5k, for the same reason.) The Project Farm video clearly shows that K&N's filters have the highest flow and the lowest filtration. The question is... do the ranges of filtration and air flow across the filters make any appreciable difference in an FJ Cruiser?

If it turned out, for example, that you only need filtration 1/4 as good as the K&N in the video to protect the FJ cruiser's engine, you could just forget about optimizing for filtration and optimize for just airflow & cost instead. Conversely, if it turns out that anything short of the Wix filter's filtration risks engine damage, then you probably wouldn't want to choose any of the others unless you actually had a race day or something where you really needed that extra bit of airflow. But, these are not only unanswered questions but potentially hard ones to answer.

I suppose on my next filter change I can spring for a couple dyno runs to answer the "performance" question of the K&N "high flow" vs probably the Wix from the video, in the context of an FJ Cruiser (I am supercharged, so perhaps the higher flow may be more or less relevant to me than to a stock FJ engine. I don't expect there will be a difference that is distinguishable from the margin of error). As far as "is the filtration good enough," I'm not sure how to answer that without buying a couple brand-new engines and running them for the equivalent of ~200k miles in different conditions with different filters and comparing them afterwards. That's far too expensive and impractical a task for me to take on...
 
#34 ·
"As far as "is the filtration good enough," I'm not sure how to answer that without buying a couple brand-new engines and running them for the equivalent of ~200k miles in different conditions with different filters and comparing them afterwards. That's far too expensive and impractical a task for me to take on..."

Luckily, Toyota did it for you, running many, many engines to end of life, in all kinds of extreme conditions, and concluded that their stock filter provided the ideal balance of long term durability and performance (remember that hp numbers, and mpg are huge marketing priorities in engine development, so they push for every advantage they can get, against wear/durability challenges).

It is unlikely they left anything "easy" on the table when they were done with development, so gains from aftermarket filters do tend to come at some cost to durability. Most accessories are bought when the vehicle is nearly new, used for 30k, or 50k, and the owner triumphantly proclaims on the internet, "it works fine!", then sells the vehicle and later owners trying to get them to 200k + will be the recipients of what was done. On a rig driven on the highway most of its life, there'll be no negative trade-off at all, which is why most of the time it isn't that big of a deal.

Then, there's the question of aftermarket parts quality, vs. Toyota parts quality (referencing some air, and oil filter teardown videos on the internet showing some hair raising issues with various aftermarket filters). Is a filter the best part to take those chances with?
 
#35 ·
I feel so bad. I bought my 1990 Toyota pickup with a V6 and shortly after added a K&N air filter. I owned that truck for 20 years and just shy of a half million miles with it still running great and getting the same fuel mileage it had the whole time. If only I had kept the stock air filter in it. I could have owned that truck for 20 years and just shy of a half million miles with it still running great and getting the same fuel mileage it had the whole time.

I ran that filter in Moab and other places where it came out filthy as can be and never any problems. Several times after pulling the filter out I wiped the air box behind the filter with a clean cloth without seeing anything coming off to the naked eye. My friend ran them in his Jeeps for years and he had been going off road in Moab and other places for years before we met with no problems.
 
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#36 ·
Blackstone can test your oil after a 8k run with K&N, then switch to OEM or others for the next 8k and re-test and compare silicon levels.

I have also used K&N on many bikes and trucks in the past thinking they were great... with no testing, no evidence, no repeatable results... just stickers for my helmet.
 
#37 ·
Something else from the Blackstone site.
What’s the best oil to use?
Ah, the million dollar question. We are an independent lab, so we don’t make recommendations. It has been our experience that oil is oil, and either petroleum or synthetic-based oil will work well for just about any engine.
Come on, you’re holding out on me. I should use synthetic, right?
Buddy, you should use whatever you want. Synthetic oil won’t guarantee a longer engine life any more than my eating organic food will guarantee I’ll live until I’m 90. We here at Blackstone generally use regular petroleum-based oil because honestly, it works just as well for us.
Just tossing that out there like chum.
 
#39 ·
Something else from the Blackstone site.
What’s the best oil to use?

Come on, you’re holding out on me. I should use synthetic, right?


Just tossing that out there like chum.
Kinda on the same lines. I see a lot of people posting about using synthetic or switching to synthetic for their diffs and T-cases and after reading the link below, I'm going to go back to dino when my next change comes up.

 
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