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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

I’ve recently seen videos on YouTube of a Toyota tech expert saying you shouldn’t run 87 in the 07’s. We’re all aware the manual and door says premium only. This was in the 07-09 model years. Then there’s the whole dealership post that 87 was acceptable. Which apparently didn’t come from Toyota itself. Of course there’s always 2010 and up people commenting on 87 which was recommended for those years. Also there’s always low mileage fj’s that don’t have enough mileage to actually show if there’s any damage. Then of course there’s a lot of back and forth about premium or regular on many of the forums dealing with fj’s. One YouTuber mechanic claimed the 07 was the only year that truly required premium. He did not say why. Some say long term 87 use causes knock. Some say they blew cats out using 87. A whole lot of people claim it does no harm at all. With the price of gas I find it extremely relevant to know. Yes, I have read through using the “search function.” It’s my thought that perhaps by now we might have extremely high 07 fj’s to put this discussion to rest. Does your extremely high mileage 07 fj have any damage from using 87?
 

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I can guarantee you long term 87 octane use doesn't damage the motor. Toyota has the 1GR-FE developed to run perfectly fine on 87. All the octane rating basically means is resistance to knocking/pre detonation. The computer can adjust for it under normal circumstances with small changes in timing.

The horsepower figures were based off of the use with 91 octane.

My wife's 08 FJ has 217,0000 miles when we bought it. I doubt the previous owner used 91. I tell her to use 87 octane.

So while I can't exactly answer your question with personal real world experience on a high mileage motor hopefully I pointed you in the right direction.
 

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I Have a V-8!! Moderator
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I had over 200,000 miles on my ‘07 running regular with no problems. It won’t hurt it.
 

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A few thoughts:
1. In the Toyota world, 200K miles on the original engine wold not considered "extremely high mileage" ... 400K probably would be at the lower end of the "extremely high mileage" range.

2. The biggest danger in using fuel with too low an octane rating for a specific engine design is detonation or 'knocking', which can severely damage pistons, etc. The 1GR-FE engine has a knock sensor on each cylinder bank, and if knocking is detected, the engine control module will progressively retard ignition timing until the knocking stops.

3. The only potentially significant concern with running 87 octane fuel is that years ago, 87 octane fuel had a less effective detergent additive package than "premium" gasoline did. The reduced detergent effectiveness of 87 octane fuel might have gradually allowed slightly more carbon build up on the intake valves and fuel injectors than if 91 octane fuel had been used exclusively.

However, in the last 15 years the "Top Tier" gasoline certification program was adopted that certifies the detergent performance of gasolines of all octane ratings as meeting specific detergency requirements.

Burn Top Tier gas and you'll be fine. Most major vehicle manufacturers specifically recommend the use of Top Tier gasoline.
 

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It is correct, higher octane is prescribed for motors that knock. Higher octane gas combusts at a lower temperature, which allows the ECU to advance timing, among other things. This can mean better mileage, better acceleration for some cars.

I think 87 octane is fine for the FJ. I'd be more concerned about ethanol content than octane, though.
 

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However, in the last 15 years the "Top Tier" gasoline certification program was adopted that qualifies Top Tier gasoline of all octane ratings as meeting specific detergency requirements.

Burn Top Tier gas and you'll be fine.
Oh cool, so this is fantastic info. So basically, if a brand is on this list: TOP TIER™ Gasoline Brands. , we should feel comfortable using their 87 gas?
 

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Ive run nothing but 91 since I bought the FJ - except on 2 occasions where the only available has was 87. Both times on 87 the FJ ran like ass.
I have also had zero issues with fuel systems, ignition, exhaust/emissions.....coincidence?

I stick with 91 because up here 91 is ethanol free.
 

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Ive run nothing but 91 since I bought the FJ - except on 2 occasions where the only available has was 87. Both times on 87 the FJ ran like ass.
I have also had zero issues with fuel systems, ignition, exhaust/emissions.....coincidence?

I stick with 91 because up here 91 is ethanol free.
And that's the real point. 'Pure' gasoline is more dense than oxygenated gas, so you burn less to go the same distance. You wouldn't believe some of the MPG numbers
I've gotten with pure gas. And Ethanol does burn hotter than gasolinne.

The whole idea of increasing Ethanol content as our supply supposedly dwindles and prices surge is just so counter-intuitive.
 

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Approaching 300k on the '07; use 87 regularly, no hiccups ever.
(I did just get an ultrasonic cleaner, so I'll be doing the MAF, throttle body & fuel injectors (eventually) & see how they are doing...)
D
 

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Ive run nothing but 91 since I bought the FJ - except on 2 occasions where the only available has was 87. Both times on 87 the FJ ran like ass.
Because the timing adjustment from 91 to 87 isn't immediate. It has to detect the knocking and adjust over time.

@Wisconsin Automatic FJ , as everyone has said the '07-'09 FJ engine, Toyota's 1GR-FE -- which was also used in the Tacoma, 4Runner, V6 Tundra, and many Toyota trucks sold overseas -- can adjust timing based on fuel octane. In an engine factory-timed for premium grade gas, that same engine (if it has knock sensors as all modern engines do) will simply produce less horsepower with regular grade gas. But the knock sensors change the engine's timing over time to reduce / eliminate knocking.

Run 87 in your truck, you'll be fine. If you ever decide to tow a heavy load over a long distance, or you come up to Colorado or somewhere else with high elevation and want a little more power, change to premium for a while then change back when you're done. Otherwise, for daily use just pick a grade and use that consistently for best results.

(and if you do pick premium gas to run regularly, the most consistently cheapest place to get it I've found is at Costco)
 

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fka BLACK HAWK
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it's been talked about many times. The general consensus is, unless supercharged or towing heavy loads regular fuel will be fine. just throw some fuel system cleaner in like Seafoam every other oil change or so
 

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Because the timing adjustment from 91 to 87 isn't immediate. It has to detect the knocking and adjust over time.

@Wisconsin Automatic FJ , as everyone has said the '07-'09 FJ engine, Toyota's 1GR-FE -- which was also used in the Tacoma, 4Runner, V6 Tundra, and many Toyota trucks sold overseas -- can adjust timing based on fuel octane. In an engine factory-timed for premium grade gas, that same engine (if it has knock sensors as all modern engines do) will simply produce less horsepower with regular grade gas. But the knock sensors change the engine's timing over time to reduce / eliminate knocking.

Run 87 in your truck, you'll be fine. If you ever decide to tow a heavy load over a long distance, or you come up to Colorado or somewhere else with high elevation and want a little more power, change to premium for a while then change back when you're done. Otherwise, for daily use just pick a grade and use that consistently for best results.

(and if you do pick premium gas to run regularly, the most consistently cheapest place to get it I've found is at Costco)
Agreed on the Costco fuel. Up here it averages $0.09 per litre less than anywhere else.
 

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Oh cool, so this is fantastic info. So basically, if a brand is on this list: TOP TIER™ Gasoline Brands. , we should feel comfortable using their 87 gas?
Yes, if you're talking only about the 1GR-FE engine used in the FJ.

No, if you're including other engines that have higher compression ratios that were designed to run on 91 octane gasoline exclusively.

The Top Tier rating is based on the detergent additives and their ability to reduce carbon fouling; it has nothing to do with octane rating or knock resistance.

Top Tier rated 87 octane fuel would not be suitable for use in a truly high compression engine (like 11:1 or higher) that was specifically designed to run on 91 octane fuel.

The initial question was can '07 - '09 1GR-FE engines safely run on 87 octane fuel and the answer is yes, even though for advertising purposes the original horsepower numbers were based on the use of 91 octane fuel. The early engines will run just fine on 87 octane fuel whether it's Top Tier rated or not, although Top Tier fuel will provide reduced carbon buildup.

When 87 octane fuel is used, peak HP and torque will be slightly reduced from what could be obtained when running 91 octane fuel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I'd be surprised if you're able to get a definitive answer. Have you seen this vid?
Starts talking about gas with 07-09 at the 5 minute mark. I guess 87 gas comes in different quality levels? And this is something that a consumer can confirm somehow?
This is the video I was talking about. lol
He makes it seems like it’s bad for the long term
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
A few thoughts:
1. In the Toyota world, 200K miles on the original engine wold not considered "extremely high mileage" ... 400K probably would be at the lower end of the "extremely high mileage" range.

2. The biggest danger in using fuel with too low an octane rating for a specific engine design is detonation or 'knocking', which can severely damage pistons, etc. The 1GR-FE engine has a knock sensor on each cylinder bank, and if knocking is detected, the engine control module will progressively retard ignition timing until the knocking stops.

3. The only potentially significant concern with running 87 octane fuel is that years ago, 87 octane fuel had a less effective detergent additive package than "premium" gasoline. The reduced detergent content in 87 octane fuel might have gradually allowed slightly more carbon build up on the intake valves and fuel injectors than if 91 octane fuel had been used exclusively.

However, in the last 15 years the "Top Tier" gasoline certification program was adopted that qualifies the detergent performance of fuels of all octane ratings as meeting specific detergency requirements.

Burn Top Tier gas and you'll be fine. Most major vehicle manufacturers specifically recommend the use of Top Tier gasoline.
I put 200,000 miles, because I figured it was a good place to start. The higher you go the less people you have for input.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Because the timing adjustment from 91 to 87 isn't immediate. It has to detect the knocking and adjust over time.

@Wisconsin Automatic FJ , as everyone has said the '07-'09 FJ engine, Toyota's 1GR-FE -- which was also used in the Tacoma, 4Runner, V6 Tundra, and many Toyota trucks sold overseas -- can adjust timing based on fuel octane. In an engine factory-timed for premium grade gas, that same engine (if it has knock sensors as all modern engines do) will simply produce less horsepower with regular grade gas. But the knock sensors change the engine's timing over time to reduce / eliminate knocking.

Run 87 in your truck, you'll be fine. If you ever decide to tow a heavy load over a long distance, or you come up to Colorado or somewhere else with high elevation and want a little more power, change to premium for a while then change back when you're done. Otherwise, for daily use just pick a grade and use that consistently for best results.

(and if you do pick premium gas to run regularly, the most consistently cheapest place to get it I've found is at Costco)
I actually got a Costco card last week for this very reason. Lol
 
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